In this episode, Casey Minshew and Feras Moussa, of the M&A Launchpad Podcast, interview Dr. Thomas Powell, a serial entrepreneur and investor. Dr. Thomas Powell has over 35 years of experience in banking and finance and has developed a deep understanding of the industry and raising capital. Tom has raised billions of dollars in his career for oil and gas, real estate and business ventures. In his spare time, he is a ski instructor in Nevada. He recently received his law degree in order to fight against the SEC, which we discuss in this episode.
The discussion covers facing adversity, raising capital, the importance of taking calculated risks, and the value of staying connected with investors. Dr. Powell shares his extensive experience in business, detailing his journey from starting his first business at age 12 to becoming a key investor and advisor in various ventures.
Dr. Powell also highlights his lawsuit against the SEC promoting freedom of speech for entrepreneurs. This episode provides valuable insights into the real-life challenges and rewards of entrepreneurship.
Thomas is the Senior Advisor at The Brehon Group, an international consulting firm focused on helping startups raise capital and ensure compliance. He specializes in asset protection strategies, guiding clients in safeguarding wealth within complex legal and business environments. Thomas has extensive experience in securities laws, compliance, and financial structuring for both startups and large projects.
In this podcast episode, we discuss:
- Raising Capital
- Fighting the SEC
- Enjoying Life While Running a Business
- Making Good Investments
If you want to hear more from Dr. Powell, check out his podcast: Home – The Powell Perspective
You can connect with Thomas by LinkedIn: Thomas J. Powell, LP.D – The Brehon Group | LinkedIn
Additional Resources:
- Work with a Trusted Quality of Earnings and Financial Diligence Partner who focuses solely on Business Acquisitions: Schedule a discovery call with Patrick of O’Connell Advisory Group—Your Dynamic Quality of Earnings Partner
- Access our archive of video interviews on YouTube
- Get in touch with show hosts Casey Minshew and Feras Moussa at – info@equitylaunchpad.com
- Looking to invest in M&A opportunities or partner with an advisor to acquire, scale or sell your business? Visit Equity Launchpad
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Transcript
00:00 all right on today’s episode we
00:02 interviewed Dr Tom poell who’s a friend
00:04 of Casey’s and really a Serial
00:05 entrepreneur has seen a lot done a lot
00:07 has raised Equity has had successful
00:09 businesses has had you know failures in
00:12 terms of exits right and kind of up and
00:14 down the Spectrum and you know we
00:15 ultimately ended up talking through what
00:17 it’s like to kind of face adversity have
00:20 tenacity right even getting out there
00:22 and you know what going and getting a
00:24 law degree later in life going and suing
00:26 the SEC right and kind of working
00:28 through some of your fundamental beliefs
00:29 and pushing them long and so Casey what
00:31 was some of your takeaways very special
00:32 interview for me because you know I
00:34 admire Tom I I’ve worked for Tom i’ he
00:36 was an investor in one of my startups a
00:38 lot of advice along the way you know but
00:41 he prioritizes his his enjoyment of life
00:44 so a 100 days on the ski slopes right
00:48 then he comes back and goes to work and
00:50 still highly productive in what he does
00:52 but I will tell you this is a story of
00:53 resilience and it’s about being an
00:55 entrepreneur and just seeing it all the
00:57 way through and Tom seen the up and
00:58 downs and he’s an investor just all the
01:01 things that I think of being an
01:03 entrepreneur that’s who I represent to
01:05 yeah know and the thing that I I kind of
01:06 respect and we ended up actually talking
01:08 about this offline outside the podcast
01:10 is just you know his commitment to the
01:12 things that he cares about right he said
01:13 a quote that I never heard which is
01:15 don’t prioritize your calendar said
01:18 calendar your priorities right so really
01:21 being able to kind of work through that
01:22 and you know while you’re still doing
01:24 the Whirlwind of being an entrepreneur
01:26 right and again Tom’s other big stick is
01:28 really who not how right so really focus
01:32 on who do you bring in how do you kind
01:34 of start to push things along and have
01:36 leverage of people’s other experience so
01:39 we jumped into raising Capital so this
01:40 is a big one all right so this one’s not
01:42 any one specific set of topics but
01:44 really a bunch of Life tips and tricks
01:47 so get it
01:51 going all right guys just take one
01:53 second here real quick when you’re
01:55 buying a business ensuring the financial
01:56 health of the company is critical and
01:58 that’s where our quality of earnings
01:59 partner comes in quality of earnings
02:01 gives you confidence in the financials
02:03 of the company that you’re purchasing it
02:04 aims to protect your investment and
02:06 ensure that you’re stepping into a
02:07 profitable business on day Patrick of ok
02:10 Advisory Group is your Dynamic quality
02:12 of earnings partner he’s here to help
02:13 you buy the right business on your
02:15 timeline Patrick’s entire practice is
02:17 focused on business Acquisitions your
02:19 Niche is his niche in over the past
02:21 decade Patrick’s helped more than 200
02:23 buyers like yourself successfully
02:24 purchase and operate enduring profitable
02:27 businesses in fact Patrick’s helped some
02:28 listeners of this show so if you’re
02:30 buying looking for help with the quality
02:32 of earnings Financial due diligence
02:34 Network capital and more head to
02:36 oconnell advisory group.com or just
02:38 click the link in the show notes hey Tom
02:40 welcome to the show first thank you
02:41 Casey great to see you yeah Tom so
02:43 excited to have you a part of this yeah
02:45 I’ve heard a lot of things about you you
02:46 know I know you’re a good friend of
02:47 Casey’s and looking forward to kind of
02:49 getting meet you and get to know you so
02:50 and he’s a mentor this guy’s this guy’s
02:52 a legend in my
02:54 book Tom tell us what makes you a legend
02:56 give a little bit of a background on
02:57 yourself to the audience well it’s
02:59 probably only in Casey’s mine because uh
03:01 my parents are both passed away so you
03:03 know you’ve got to have one friend out
03:04 there in the world but my background
03:07 briefly I started my first business when
03:08 I was 12 and it was like most
03:10 entrepreneurs it was out of necessity
03:12 you can’t get a job when you’re 12 back
03:14 in the 70s so cutting grass or no
03:17 because my first business I was also
03:18 probably 11 or 12 and it was a company
03:20 called kidpro and it was us kids cutting
03:22 grass so nice I love that mine was maau
03:25 I still actually have the business cards
03:26 from that point now it was cutting uh
03:29 grass but also taking care of pets and
03:31 then shoveling sidewalks we live in the
03:33 sieras so we get a lot of snow and maau
03:37 stood for millions are coming our way I
03:40 had started listening to Earl
03:42 Nightingale and and Jim rone not the
03:44 sports caster but the professional
03:45 speaker at the time and some others so I
03:47 I had been turned on to that because I
03:49 was really poor I lived in a Breezeway
03:51 between a garage and a house and my
03:53 parents were out of my life at that
03:55 point so my oldest sister was Raising me
03:57 and so that transitioned into a couple
03:60 uh different times in Corporate America
04:03 being recruited by them from my
04:05 entrepreneurial position and the biggest
04:07 one was Wells Fargo Bank uh in the 80s
04:09 at the transition time during the Reagan
04:11 Administration Banks were deregulating
04:14 or being deregulated so they needed to
04:16 learn how to be more
04:17 entrepreneurial and I was fortunate to
04:19 get in at the right time at Wells can
04:22 read about the story not of me
04:24 personally but of that time in the book
04:26 uh good to great and that helped me
04:28 launch into what was uh and has
04:31 continued to be essentially our business
04:32 model since 1992 which is where we bring
04:35 Capital to business entrepreneurs and
04:37 help them build their ideas into
04:39 something that hopefully is a great exit
04:41 and sometimes isn’t sometimes it is in
04:43 any way we always learn that’s how Tom
04:46 and I met so I met Tom he signed up on
04:49 Energy funders website uh back in it
04:51 would have been
04:52 2015 and it went on to a journey of
04:56 following up with him for the next 12
04:58 months until we decided to meet in
05:00 person and he ended up being one of our
05:02 Elite investors in our series a
05:05 round y that was great and that was a
05:07 great exit right so you always count the
05:09 exits which is something that I have
05:11 learned and I go back to a story of Ages
05:14 ago we built a company a National
05:16 Mortgage Bank that I had acquired part
05:18 of it in the ’90s early 90s and uh in
05:23 the early 2000s I got an offer from a
05:27 large bank for $35 million and we valued
05:30 at $100 million that we were on track to
05:32 be valued at right and one of my
05:35 entrepreneurial friends who was the
05:37 first private satellite launch company
05:39 uh back in the 90s uh called rotary
05:41 rocket he and I are standing in the
05:43 hotel I remember exactly where I was in
05:45 Boston and I told him about the offer
05:47 and I said yeah I just turned them down
05:48 and he said you know whenever you turn
05:50 somebody down that’s what you just
05:52 bought your company for and he goes what
05:54 you want to do is you want to exit and
05:56 then you take that exit and you go to
05:57 the next win and the next win and the
05:59 next win and so when that company exited
06:03 finally and I wrote a check for $6
06:05 million because yes 2008 happened right
06:08 so oh yeah and I had $102 million in
06:12 personal guarantees when that happened
06:14 I’ve never forgot that experience of
06:17 going from a $35 million check exit and
06:20 having the huis to say no it’s worth a
06:22 100 million so whenever we make our
06:24 investments we also start off with the
06:26 entrepreneur it’s like in this scenario
06:28 are you going to be willing to take the
06:30 check because if not we’ve got to write
06:31 that and we do anyway into our exits
06:34 that’s a great Point Tom so one of the
06:35 things you and I’ve talked about over
06:36 the years and and I think even feris
06:38 I’ve shared it’s like you know when
06:39 people say what is the best time to sell
06:41 right and it’s like when you get an
06:43 offer and right and and we all want more
06:47 we want this number but in your career
06:48 you’ve seen a lot of exits a lot of
06:50 sales a lot of things and um usually
06:53 when someone makes an offer it’s
06:54 probably a good time to maybe sell right
06:57 it’s a good time to consider it and you
06:59 know Candace and I my oldest daughter
07:01 are out buying up some real estate right
07:03 now uh in various times and we make the
07:05 offers and you make money on the buy not
07:08 on the cell right so that’s and for an
07:11 entrepreneur that’s really important to
07:13 understand that concept because
07:15 entrepreneurs tend to give away their
07:16 equity in and I know you guys are
07:18 talking at some point about the capital
07:19 raising and things that people go out
07:21 and do but that Capital stack structure
07:26 is very very important how they
07:28 structure that first round of capital
07:30 for their ownership position because
07:32 it’s the same thing as when you go in
07:33 and buy a piece of real estate doesn’t
07:34 matter how much you improve it that
07:36 first buy was really where the value was
07:38 and then adding value to it so
07:40 throughout that process you need to pay
07:42 attention or or or any of the
07:43 entrepreneurs need to pay attention to
07:44 that and when someone makes an offer
07:48 there’s two things going on it’s either
07:50 it’s a great offer and you should exit
07:52 and take that to your next successful
07:54 thing especially as a serial
07:55 entrepreneur if it’s a horrible offer
07:58 you need to start looking at the market
07:59 and see if you’re in the state of a
08:01 falling knife because sometimes a
08:03 horrible offer means we’re headed
08:05 towards a downfall and people don’t see
08:07 it yet and that’s also a good time to
08:09 exit is get out before it costs too much
08:12 yeah and I think the other thing to add
08:13 to that too though is sometimes just
08:15 take some chips off the table right like
08:17 I’ve learned that you know back to the
08:19 first business you I had the uh the the
08:21 the the grass cutting business and then
08:24 you know that grew and I had this small
08:26 software company in high school and you
08:28 know I had extra money and I started
08:29 investing in and quickly like burned a
08:31 lot of money in stocks realizing that a
08:33 it’s about day trading and B like take
08:34 some wins off the table and so that
08:36 shifted my mindset in life and you know
08:39 even if you believe in a business ask
08:41 yourself how do I exit partially right
08:44 take some risk off of the table and some
08:46 guys will go all in bet the whole Farm
08:48 on it right and yeah some guys get
08:50 heavily rewarded for it but like you
08:52 said Tom some guys also get the other
08:54 end of the stick right and so you know
08:56 you could have made out with 100 million
08:58 but also you end up putting in six
08:60 million so that’s that’s a problem and
09:01 so yeah you know that’s where we like to
09:03 coach up some of our sellers on hey
09:05 rolling Equity right sure you believe in
09:07 the business you think it might be worth
09:08 more how about you put your money where
09:09 your mouth is we’ll put money where our
09:11 mouth is and let’s buy you for this you
09:12 keep 30% in and let’s grow it so I think
09:16 Casey was well you were definitely
09:18 around at the time we were doing this
09:19 deal I don’t know if you knew the
09:21 intricacies of the deal but we put a
09:22 million dollars into a fintech company
09:25 that was out of Virginia and about three
09:28 years later a group came in and offered
09:31 us our buyout at that point and so we
09:34 were able to take our cash off with a
09:36 return and we didn’t go to the C round
09:39 with them this was in the B round that
09:40 we got bought out but what ended up
09:43 happening was we got all of our cash out
09:45 and then we stayed within or or in the
09:47 deal with warrants and so we made our
09:50 return that we wanted to have in that
09:51 instead of going for the big win on that
09:53 scenario because we knew the market was
09:55 volatile and as we said at that point we
09:57 said it’s really frothy so for us it was
09:59 great to get get the risk as you said
10:01 Ferris off the table and now all of a
10:03 sudden we’re playing with house money
10:04 and then one of one that have happened
10:05 to that business is still move forward
10:08 did you miss out the big win or you feel
10:10 good about what you did no I feel great
10:12 about what we did it had its uh trials
10:14 and tribulations it was huge valuation
10:18 and then huge crash and then correction
10:21 and then finally a small little teeny
10:23 tiny exit and the entrepreneur made
10:25 nothing right we got our money out we
10:27 got a little bit of kicker at the end
10:29 but it was great because we also were
10:30 able to reposition the money and that’s
10:32 why we like early stage uh financing in
10:34 our case so we go in post you know
10:36 friends and family prea in many cases we
10:40 want post Revenue we can be
10:58 pre-prosthetic raising money from who
11:00 you deploying it into what and how is it
11:03 being deployed right is it LP is it you
11:05 know sounds like it’s uh debt I mean
11:06 what is I just for the listeners to kind
11:08 of understand it so it started in ’92 in
11:12 a debt structure initially with what we
11:15 would called a uh s a shared uh
11:19 appreciation loan so you get in there
11:21 you get your coupon and then at the end
11:24 of the day if the thing does really well
11:27 you take that money off the table right
11:30 now there’s all sorts of other ways that
11:31 they articulate this in today’s world
11:33 and and have a different ways to do the
11:35 notes but generally we’d go in and I had
11:37 left the bank rates had been falling
11:39 from 18% I mean customers had 18% CDs
11:44 right so they’re rolling into a 12% CD
11:46 and they’re pissed I mean could you
11:47 imagine having a 12% fiveyear CD today
11:50 right so they’re pissed and it was the
11:52 first really downturn in a market that I
11:55 had gone through as an adult so this is
11:57 91 California went through a Rec
11:59 recession mostly partly because there
12:02 was a consolidation of a number of banks
12:04 at the time and all a sudden there’s
12:06 several billion dollars with the real
12:07 estate that was performing but not
12:09 performing we saw an opportunity there
12:11 me and a couple of other friends because
12:12 we had these very wealthy today what
12:14 would be termed as a high net worth uh
12:16 you know family office type scenario but
12:18 family offices wasn’t a thing back then
12:21 there was no such thing as a family
12:22 office really so they uh pulled money
12:25 from high net worth investors and put
12:27 those into a fund we would generally go
12:29 in as a manager of the the lp side and
12:35 we’d have usually and so if it went in
12:37 as a debt we’d go in as a debt position
12:39 which would be first off usually tie up
12:41 the IP from a standpoint of having a you
12:44 know if the deal blows up we get
12:45 whatever IP they have they’re
12:47 collateralizing against the IP yeah and
12:50 that’s that’s a scenario That Grew into
12:52 various other things things that we
12:54 should have never gotten into which is a
12:55 great learning experience right so we
12:57 learned that not only should you know
12:59 get out over your skis I am a big skier
13:01 right so you get out over your skis
13:02 because you have success in this area
13:04 you think you can go do something else
13:05 and that ends up being poor where we’ve
13:08 mostly made our money at the end of the
13:10 day is we buy up distressed debt so when
13:12 you get into markets you find some
13:14 either a distressed property a
13:15 distressed company distressed debt uh
13:17 somebody’s made an investment in a
13:19 company and we buy up the shares in that
13:20 scenario and come in and reposition it
13:22 because we have a strong team on
13:25 management uh I think Casey could talk
13:27 to that still uh we bring in the systems
13:29 the structure we find out the who’s and
13:31 we help companies or whatever that
13:33 entrepreneurial venture is doing to fix
13:36 that piece so can you give an example
13:38 yeah we we’re right now we’re involved
13:40 in a cannabis company in the state of
13:42 Nevada and so in doing that it’s got
13:45 some cash flow it’s got a couple retail
13:48 uh stores and a grow uh so it has a you
13:52 know the other part of it is I always
13:53 like something that has a protective
13:54 moat so when you have licenses in a
13:57 certain space that keeps competitors out
14:00 so we looked at that and said okay
14:02 they’re not managing the retail side
14:04 enough they are not as we looked at the
14:06 numbers they’re not tracking their sales
14:09 and they’re not managing their people
14:11 towards having gains in the sales
14:12 typical retail management stuff now I
14:15 know very little about cannabis
14:17 specifically but I know a decent amount
14:19 about retail and we know about retail
14:21 investing and but the most important
14:23 part was we brought in the team members
14:24 and the Consultants that knew about
14:26 cannabis grow and cannabis retail and so
14:29 we’re looking at a multiple you know it
14:31 won’t be a huge exit at the end of the
14:32 day but we’ll probably have a five or
14:34 Sixx
14:36 exit huh I toured that property yeah you
14:39 did yes it was pretty it was pretty
14:40 amazing I mean I was blown away with
14:43 what they were doing and oh my Go I mean
14:45 I I was blown away with the the facility
14:47 it was pretty cool and so just so I
14:49 understand it though so it’s a company
14:51 that was distressed they came they
14:53 weren’t distressed they needed they
14:54 needed growth Capital got it and so you
14:57 g so you g you raised Equity from High
14:59 North individuals to deploy in as the
15:02 growth capital and it got deployed in as
15:04 what to buy into the company or was it
15:06 debt on the company with a equity kicker
15:08 I mean how did you guys structure that
15:10 the second part was a debt with an
15:12 equity kicker that matches what the
15:14 equity returns are so we’re actually not
15:16 on we’re in the capital stack that we’re
15:19 pre-exit value for our principal return
15:23 uh and then we’re given our coupon along
15:25 the way which is also pree Equity exit
15:28 for us in that scenario got it it’s
15:30 pretty NE I mean when I when I learned
15:32 about the business I mean that they know
15:33 cannabis they don’t know business so now
15:36 Tom comes to the table brings Capital
15:38 know how of
15:41 business similar what we’re doing at
15:42 Equity launch pad yeah absolutely same
15:44 concept right but I guess you know and
15:45 that’s why I’m trying to understand the
15:47 difference right the Nuance there
15:48 because like in our world we are buying
15:50 the business right we are the majority
15:51 shareholder we’re not a note or nothing
15:53 else right we can make the decisions to
15:55 do what we want right in your model
15:57 you’re kind of almost hey structured as
15:59 dead and I guess as part of the deal
16:01 though you’re saying we get management
16:02 control to go get this where we need it
16:05 we get manage we get management input in
16:08 early days and if we find that they take
16:11 our advice or they you know not our
16:14 advice if they if they continue to grow
16:16 the company and do that then we’re
16:17 making our returns we’re pretty much
16:18 hands off scenario other than taking a
16:21 seat on the board and and having a voice
16:23 in the growth and there’s a kind of
16:26 space that we live within on that and
16:28 say these are acceptable returns you’re
16:30 not having the acceptable returns we’re
16:32 going to insert ourselves a little bit
16:34 more into the company or a little bit
16:36 more or a lot more and then eventually
16:38 if we need to we’ll make a management
16:40 change and if we need to we’ll buy out
16:43 the equity shares uh if we need to have
16:45 control but in most cases we’ve written
16:46 into our documents we have control
16:48 without having to do the second part of
16:51 buying out any Equity um but there are
16:53 times that we see that that people start
16:55 seeing that the adage of It’s always
16:56 darkest before before the sun comes up
16:59 in running businesses often times it’s
17:01 like you’re 3 days away from bankruptcy
17:03 and then boom you know you get this huge
17:06 exit that is you know this unb you know
17:09 unbelievable thing that happened because
17:10 it’s cash flow that changes those things
17:12 or it’s it’s an infusion of cash or
17:14 whatever else is going on so that’s
17:16 somewhat the space that we live in so
17:19 Tom one of the things I think that that
17:21 you know that you’ve brought to me
17:23 taught me a lot about because I was
17:24 early in my stages of raising Capital at
17:26 energy funders and really being able to
17:29 talked to you uh you know when you gave
17:31 me 15 to 20 minutes of your time it was
17:33 all about hey this is what you need to
17:34 do this is Raising Capital now you’ve
17:37 you were fortunate to write a training
17:39 on raising Capital uh you’ve had a
17:41 chance to be a part of the Harvard uh
17:43 you know group on raising Capital um so
17:46 talk to a lot of our listeners because
17:48 the people that are listening to this
17:50 you know they are looking to buy that
17:52 company and they’re going to have to
17:54 raise a you know they’re going to have
17:56 to raise the equity that they’re going
17:57 to put into the business and they’ve got
17:59 to talk to these investors I mean
18:01 there’s a lot they’ve got to do around
18:02 raising Capital so your
18:04 thoughts well you know Casey and you
18:08 worked with ferie at our group right so
18:10 I use fery as a as a great example of
18:12 this and he he has a business out there
18:14 called asset class which is great
18:15 business and going and years ago he took
18:17 a class for me and my mentor who we’ve
18:20 been business partners now for you know
18:23 de multiple decades uh and his name is
18:26 Bill fiser so Bill and I created this
18:28 program called six secrets of of raising
18:30 early stage capital and we then put
18:33 together a program and it was our former
18:36 uh uh EVP at Wells Fargo that went to
18:38 become the chair or the dean at the B
18:41 school at Stanford asked Bill to put
18:44 together this three-day Workshop one of
18:46 these executive workshops at Stanford so
18:49 you know kind of a bigname school of
18:51 already who knows how to raise Capital
18:53 so we systemized it down to a handful of
18:55 things and those are the six Secrets as
18:57 we call it and when we marketed that
19:00 class everybody who wanted to take the
19:02 class wanted to know roughly secret
19:04 three or four which is how do you find
19:06 the right
19:07 investors and so in the 3-day Workshop
19:10 do you know what we spent most of the
19:11 that’s what they came in for do you know
19:13 what we spent most of the time working
19:14 on no idea how to explain your story
19:18 that’s so I was gonna totally guess that
19:19 I was gonna say how do you tell how do
19:20 you give a pitch I mean that’s it’s all
19:22 about the story that’s it’s just no
19:24 investor wants to invest in a deal where
19:26 hey the returns are 20% but there’s not
19:27 a story like no story to it and most
19:31 entrepreneurs talk about the
19:35 solution they don’t talk about what
19:37 problem they’re solving and so the
19:40 biggest thing for your you know
19:42 listeners to this program is until you
19:44 can articulate the problem that you
19:47 solve you can’t attract the right
19:50 investors and by that what I mean is the
19:53 best marketing if you if you read Joe
19:55 polish or or do anything with genius
19:56 Network and understand what’s what’s out
19:58 there for Market marting the best
20:00 marketing attracts the right client and
20:04 repels the wrong client so don’t care
20:08 don’t try and be the friends of
20:09 everybody in the world be very specific
20:11 about who you want and when you’re
20:13 looking for investors it’s exactly the
20:15 same thing so the presentation should be
20:18 about what problem are you solving and
20:21 then you go find out who already
20:23 recognizes that this is a problem that
20:25 needs to be solved and they want to put
20:27 money into solving this problem so it’s
20:30 it’s you don’t need to convince people
20:32 that cancer needs to be solved if you
20:34 can find the person that has lost a
20:36 loved one or has had cancer and survived
20:38 it and says I want to have better
20:39 research in there that’s the person to
20:41 be reaching out to that has money but
20:44 just because they’ve got a billion
20:45 dollars doesn’t mean they’re going to be
20:47 investing in your project yeah no I mean
20:49 we we we almost learned that kind of
20:51 tangentially same point though you know
20:53 we we’ve raised hundreds of millions of
20:54 dollars on real estate right all of our
20:56 praise has been about hey here’s this
20:57 deal here’s this story here’s the
20:59 location here’s what we’re going to make
21:00 it better etc etc well then we got
21:02 ambitious and like hey let’s go create a
21:04 pref Equity Fund where we’re not going
21:06 to tell which deal it is because we
21:07 don’t know the deal right we’re raising
21:08 the money in advance and we thought
21:11 would be very successful and it turns
21:12 out even though the investors are only
21:14 investing because of us right they are
21:17 back in the jockey it’s like it just
21:19 seemed like the investors wanted to be
21:21 able to think that they’re investing in
21:22 a deal in an area that they think has an
21:24 upside or you know they wanted to hear
21:26 the story in advance it wasn’t like Hey
21:27 we’re going to buy properties in United
21:29 States that we can deploy a pref in a
21:31 safe position that didn’t matter it’s
21:32 they want to know that it’s a deal in
21:34 Atlanta it’s got these operational
21:36 deficiencies we’re going to make it
21:37 better and have a whole story that they
21:39 can side with and you know we learn the
21:41 hard way that people want to be able to
21:44 even if it’s like psychological they
21:45 want to think they got to choose what
21:47 they what their investment went into and
21:49 they compelled by that story so yeah you
21:52 know per it it is interesting these very
21:55 large
21:56 REITs that people have money in Ed in
21:59 are mostly invested through their
22:01 retirement plans or
22:03 other right so these are large funds
22:06 collecting up money from other funds
22:08 that have been collected that are
22:10 already raised and they’re talking about
22:11 coupons out there or it’s you know it’s
22:14 it’s an insurance company that’s put
22:15 some money into that reap because they
22:17 need to clip a coupon so it looks like
22:20 that’s a great idea right so all these
22:22 big deals can come in and find it but
22:24 for most of your retail investors they
22:27 want boots on the ground they want
22:29 understand what it is because most of
22:31 them didn’t make money in what you’re
22:33 doing they made money somewhere else and
22:36 they need to make a return on that money
22:38 so they want to know that you know it
22:39 and and they touched those boots on the
22:41 ground so it’s the Chrome business right
22:43 you want to know who was in that
22:45 business how did you bring the
22:46 management team how did they get to do
22:48 that and why would I want to be in there
22:49 well I can go see it it’s
22:51 tangible that’s what we’ve seen but then
22:54 we go hey let’s go raise a bunch of
22:55 money to go buy a bunch of companies
22:56 people are like oh hold on
23:00 they want to know I want to be in the
23:02 water business I want to be in the
23:03 chrome plating business I want to be in
23:05 a software business right they whatever
23:08 they’re compelled by yeah and that
23:10 really gets to one of the other parts is
23:13 that and Casey knows this so I have a uh
23:17 love haate hate love relationship with
23:20 the SEC right so we’re actually in the
23:22 ninth circuit right now for a
23:23 constitutional lawsuit against the SEC
23:26 for a first and Fourth Amendment
23:28 violations by the SEC that does not say
23:30 that I don’t believe that there should
23:31 be regulation on uh Securities both at
23:35 the state level and at the federal level
23:36 but what it says is they can’t overreach
23:38 what was set up by our Founders because
23:41 at the base of this country we’re not a
23:43 religious freedom country we’re a uh a
23:45 rights to economic and free enterprise
23:48 country our Founders were all
23:51 entrepreneurs right in some level and so
23:53 they wanted to have that freedom of of
23:56 economics and so the ability to to raise
23:59 capital and put them in these lpgp
24:01 scenarios has it’s over restricted right
24:04 now and so what you guys are doing is
24:06 great because you’re bringing those
24:08 Investments to people in a space that is
24:11 highly regulated and yet you’ve got a
24:13 good format for how to do that which is
24:15 great no I mean we see a lot of what
24:16 we’re doing is kind of getting investors
24:18 exposure to Main Street right I mean
24:19 historically people didn’t know how to
24:21 get into these kinds of Investments
24:23 right so people not know again my
24:25 background soft for all my friends at
24:26 Microsoft all they know is dump all the
24:28 money go buy an index fund and you know
24:31 that that’s that’s it that’s what you’re
24:32 getting that’s your life that’s your
24:33 retirement which the gains are off of
24:35 seven stocks principally on that Index
24:37 Fund right so yes You’ got you’ve got a
24:39 whole index deal but it’s still right
24:41 back to basically the fangs that are
24:43 making all the growth thing is all this
24:44 worked out
24:46 so talk about concentration yeah so Tom
24:50 and just kind of going back to you know
24:51 so one of the things over the years you
24:53 and I’ve talked about is uh you know the
24:56 ability to raise Capital One two we’ve
24:59 also you and I were actually before I
25:01 joined Ferris and Ben in Partnership you
25:03 know you and I were talking about going
25:05 out acquiring the small businesses right
25:07 we were talking about this together in
25:09 2021 uh when I was working with you at
25:11 your family office yeah and um we talked
25:14 about this and it was one of the leaps
25:16 that we were going to do but you know
25:17 you and I had that conversation about
25:18 hey you know you’ve got those friends
25:20 that you grew up with that their family
25:22 has just had you know these businesses
25:25 that have paid lineages of or at least
25:27 generational income you know so a large
25:30 part of our listeners and the people
25:31 that we’re dealing with you know they’re
25:33 out looking for legacy businesses people
25:35 that are 20 30 40 years you know old and
25:38 they’re going to come in and they’re
25:39 going to buy the business and it’s going
25:40 to have some more predictability of
25:42 income and revenue yeah I I I love the
25:46 space you’re in and I love what you guys
25:48 are doing I think that it’s a huge
25:50 opportunity as Casey and I have said you
25:53 know identifying opportunities out there
25:55 and part of it is is the you know I have
25:59 a research doctorate so some of the
26:02 things that I say it’s Quantified
26:03 because I’ve actually got data and then
26:05 other times it’s just a gut feeling and
26:07 this is kind of that that ancillary
26:10 information so I ski a lot and I ski a
26:12 lot with a bunch of older people that
26:14 have made really great livings on
26:16 usually first generation businesses and
26:19 it’s amazing how many 60 and 70 year
26:21 olds that have had a wonderful life and
26:24 put their kids through college and their
26:26 grand kids through college and the kids
26:28 don’t want to be in the business at all
26:30 or they tried in the business but they
26:32 don’t want to be in the business anymore
26:34 or they can’t get along with the
26:35 siblings or whatever there’s so many
26:37 different things that go in there and
26:39 the entrepreneurs and many of them are
26:41 men but there’s also a fair amount of
26:43 female entrepreneurs out there too that
26:44 are in their 60s that have built these
26:46 businesses and they’re sitting there and
26:48 they’re looking and they’re they don’t
26:49 necessarily need an exit they’ve got a
26:51 cash flowing business and they’re like
26:52 but they’re like but what do I do when I
26:55 pass away this thing is a living
26:57 breathing entity and it’s going to die
26:59 because what ends up happening is if
27:01 there’s not if there’s not someone to be
27:03 the entrepreneur or at least the owner
27:05 within that business the management team
27:07 will not succeed over a long period of
27:09 time so you know it’s a just it it that
27:12 is a critical piece and it’s multi-
27:15 trillions of dollars that is going to
27:18 transfer wealth over the next decade
27:20 maybe two decades right I what an
27:23 opportunity so Tom how many of these
27:25 businesses are you sending our way now
27:27 you know get out there go skiing I mean
27:29 you know like you’re already the
27:31 compelled uh person I don’t even have to
27:33 explain it to you you already understand
27:34 the problem to begin with I’ve been
27:36 seing Tom to raise this $50 million fund
27:39 for Equity Launchpad so we go out and
27:41 take over the world raise the blind pool
27:43 fund if I this is how this is how Casey
27:46 does it is is he he he slowly drips on
27:48 me brings me back in he talks to me and
27:51 I will tell you this so so go go back to
27:53 and FIS I’ll answer your question but go
27:56 back to one of the things that an
27:57 entrepreneur raising capital needs to do
27:60 is they need to understand this won’t be
28:02 their only Rodeo so they need to stay in
28:05 touch with their sponsors meaning not
28:07 the sponsors of the actual fund but
28:09 their sponsors are like those people
28:10 that put the stickers on the you know
28:12 the rodeo Bron Riders shirt and that
28:16 sponsor is their lifeblood for all their
28:19 future Ventures because they don’t they
28:21 don’t do it just because they’re always
28:22 going to get a win if you’re a real
28:24 serious investor you understand there’s
28:26 wins and there’s losses but if that
28:28 cowboy doesn’t stay in touch with me I
28:30 don’t invest with them again meaning if
28:33 they’re only giving me the sunshine and
28:35 hey we’re going to win we’re going to
28:36 win we’re going to win and they don’t
28:37 bring me the challenges and tell me when
28:39 it’s going to fail or what’s going on I
28:41 don’t invest again with them but if they
28:42 do and they stay with that and they’ve
28:45 shown Integrity we’ll do many deals with
28:47 them because it’s like they’re learning
28:48 as they’re growing yeah I mean
28:50 happens right and you know investors
28:52 aren’t idiots I mean they they get it
28:55 they can get behind it and it’s about
28:56 how do you solve it and to your point I
28:58 mean I always tell people that are
28:59 looking to raise money you don’t raise
29:01 money whenever you have an opportunity
29:04 it’s all the homework you did well
29:05 before then then an opportunity shows up
29:07 and then you’re really just closing the
29:09 raise right it’s not you know and if
29:11 you’re if you’re start you’re going out
29:14 there pitching once you have an
29:15 opportunity you didn’t maintain that
29:17 relationship that Rapport you know as an
29:18 investor it’s like well is this guy
29:21 really aligned with me in terms of we’re
29:22 a partnership or is this guy just using
29:24 me for my money and you know hoping for
29:25 the best
29:27 so and I will Ferris I will tell you
29:29 this again not every investor is aware
29:31 of that there’s so many investors that
29:35 come in and blindly make an investment
29:38 they think they understand it and they
29:40 think there’s a
29:41 guarantee and
29:43 so you know you want a guarantee you go
29:45 buy a treasury second go put it in the
29:48 bank but those are the two guarantees or
29:50 an insurance company type scenario with
29:52 buying it but you know whole life policy
29:54 or something you get some guarantees in
29:55 there but in investing it’s not a
29:57 guarantee it’s not the wild west all the
29:59 time but it is there’s not a guarantee
30:01 yeah I mean it’s about for investors you
30:03 got to understand risk adjusted returns
30:05 right it’s all about the risk adjusted
30:07 part people just fix it on the Returns
30:09 part and you know I see that in real
30:10 estate I mean we present a brand new
30:12 deal in a great pocket it’s very
30:14 different than a deal that’s completely
30:15 distress and we’re going to have to go
30:17 you know turn the whole property dump
30:18 Millions into the capex and there’s a
30:20 lot that can go wrong our capex prices
30:22 can go up right we could struggle to get
30:24 at least up I mean there’s just a
30:25 million different things and people
30:28 almost look at the bottom line and make
30:30 their investment based on that instead
30:31 of understanding the rest of that story
30:33 so yeah yeah I’ve had a chance over the
30:36 last decade now to to have watched Tom
30:38 build some pretty amazing things invest
30:40 into a lot of things and I’ve always
30:42 watched you really keep you’re cool
30:44 you’re calm you’re steady because
30:45 they’re not always winners right and uh
30:48 it’s it’s been pretty phenomenal but um
30:50 you know just kind of in in as we move
30:51 to the next I want to I want to talk
30:53 about the tenacity and what it takes to
30:55 be an entrepreneur because those are
30:57 some of the big things that that a lot
30:58 of our listeners are new to
30:60 entrepreneurship they think they’re
31:01 going to buy a company and it’s going to
31:02 solve all their problems and what’s
31:04 going to happen is every bit of problems
31:06 are going to pop up so Tom you know you
31:08 went through a pretty big battle um of
31:12 on your on some of your Investments then
31:14 you decided to go back to law school or
31:17 go to law school and now you are
31:19 fighting the SEC so give us I mean this
31:22 is probably this is one of the best
31:24 stories I mean like this is a I I not
31:27 just saying this amazing story but just
31:29 in a quick snapshot here tell our
31:31 listeners about what you’re doing and
31:33 what’s happened well I I’ll just give
31:35 you a little bit of background on that
31:37 so and for Ferris you don’t know me
31:39 Casey knows the story a little bit but
31:41 uh I was a horrible student and because
31:45 I made money early in my career by the
31:48 time I was in high school I was making
31:50 way more than the teachers were so I
31:52 didn’t see a reason to actually go to
31:54 school and so I had two passions which
31:56 was running the business and going
31:57 scheme so my sister who was Raising Me
32:00 was really surprised and still says to
32:02 this day she can’t she you know when she
32:03 went to graduations she wasn’t sure that
32:05 I was getting my degree you know my
32:08 diploma um and so fast forward I didn’t
32:11 get my undergrad degree till I was in my
32:13 30s I now have way too many degrees uh
32:16 for most people’s pleasure about that
32:18 but I you know I have an MBA I’ve
32:19 graduate from Harvard I uh went on to
32:22 get my doctorate at nor Eastern uh
32:24 pritsker law school and so in uh the
32:27 reason for that was after I went into
32:30 business and made some money I decided
32:32 that I want to go back and find out why
32:34 things work and why they don’t work and
32:36 try and learn those things so in that I
32:39 was battling the SEC they had come in
32:41 because we had uh some ancillary people
32:46 that were raising Capital that stepped
32:48 on somebody’s toes in one of the states
32:50 and then that led to a long-term
32:52 investigation in the oil and gas Arena
32:54 which then led to us uh agreeing to a
32:58 settlement with the SEC without ever
33:00 going into a full investigation or
33:02 anything else along those lines but in
33:05 uh over four years we had produced over
33:08 880,000 documents not 80,000 Pages
33:11 880,000 documents showing you know what
33:13 was going on with this and following and
33:15 believing the Civics that I learned over
33:18 my lifetime uh and believing in the
33:21 system and it really wasn’t about that
33:23 they were looking for a pound of Flesh
33:26 so we were the biggest group that had
33:28 flesh right so I was the uh the 800lb
33:31 gorilla in the room so we said we took
33:33 the settlement now initially it was a a
33:36 really large offer that the SEC wanted
33:38 to settle for and it ended up being a
33:40 $50,000 settlement that maybe $75,000
33:43 settlement after four years right so the
33:46 number of lawyers that they put in the
33:47 room is just for one meeting was the
33:50 $50,000 or $75,000 whatever it
33:52 was that really piqued my interest as to
33:56 how law really works so we’ve we’ve
33:59 spent you know tens of millions of
34:00 dollars on on lawyers with sometimes we
34:02 find really good ones sometimes we find
34:04 really bad ones we find a lot of times
34:06 litigators on the other side are just
34:08 throwing you know stuff against the wall
34:10 and you have investors so uh decided to
34:13 do my doctorate in law on policy at
34:14 Northeastern and initially I was going
34:17 to do it on administrative law and my
34:20 wife uh fortunately for me said you know
34:23 maybe don’t pick something that you’re
34:24 going to be pissed off about all the
34:26 time and so I ended up doing my my
34:28 dissertation on Workforce housing which
34:30 was great something that I’m passionate
34:31 about uh but I still did the research in
34:34 the Constitutional law and the law side
34:36 and that led us to file the uh lawsuit
34:39 against the SEC and again it’s been
34:42 picked up and we’re backed by some
34:43 really really really large names uh the
34:46 ncla being one of them and they bring uh
34:50 that constitutional law issue to the
34:52 Forefront about how our government is to
34:55 behave we forget that we don’t need to
34:58 get permission from the government the
34:59 government needs to get permission from
35:01 us the people they only have the power
35:03 even the administrators only have the
35:05 power because we the people give them
35:07 the power it’s it’s we the people in
35:09 order to form more perfect union right
35:12 is the whole Preamble and we need to
35:15 remember
35:16 that huge and so things are progressing
35:19 and uh man it’s just huge inspiration
35:22 you did that man what’s and what’s the
35:24 lawsuit for exactly I mean what’s kind
35:26 of the the the argument being made well
35:28 so it’s a very simple lawsuit which is
35:31 really critically important if you watch
35:32 any of the things that get to the
35:34 Supreme Court and we’re hoping that this
35:35 will get to the Supreme Court uh and the
35:38 the outcome of that will be if we win uh
35:41 the SEC will possibly and especially
35:44 with the administrative change look at
35:46 it and make changes to what they do in
35:48 their policies that’s great we won at at
35:51 you know the federal court level and at
35:53 the ninth circuit and that’s great um
35:56 what is possible though
35:59 is is that the SEC wins and then we’ll
36:01 have to take it to the next level which
36:02 would be the Supreme Court the issue is
36:06 the first amendment is the right of free
36:09 speech what people think in most cases
36:12 is it’s free speech between the three of
36:13 us sitting here in this room I can say
36:15 whatever I want I can say hey Casey you
36:17 are a handsome man or I can say
36:18 something else totally because I have
36:20 the right to make free speech that’s not
36:22 what the founders talked about what they
36:24 wanted to make sure of is that you could
36:26 speak out always against the king and
36:29 never have retribution so it’s the right
36:31 to speak out and when you sign a
36:35 settlement with the SEC for the last 35
36:38 years when you sign that settlement the
36:41 SEC just like Harvey Weinstein says you
36:44 can’t tell anybody how you got abused in
36:46 this room and how we pushed you up
36:47 against the wall and how we promised to
36:49 take everything away from you and your
36:50 family you can’t tell people that you
36:52 are gagged forever ever in talking about
36:56 the SEC in a bad light
36:58 and that is not
37:01 constitutional awesome freedom of speech
37:03 baby I love it stick it to them got to
37:06 No it’s it’s not even about sticking it
37:08 to them it’s about standing up for our
37:09 rights right so and and it’s and it is
37:11 critically important because we don’t
37:13 have free enterprise if we don’t have
37:15 freedom of speech no I completely agree
37:17 I mean because you don’t know what else
37:18 goes on behind Clos s right if you’re
37:20 not able to speak about it I mean you
37:22 know you may be agreeing to something
37:24 because you were kind of forced into it
37:25 and you realize everybody else has done
37:26 that and so now you know are we actually
37:28 controlling our Destiny or not so yeah
37:31 Tom we’re going to jump into some
37:33 personal questions here we’ve got three
37:34 of them that we’re going to throw at you
37:36 but um our rocket round it’s called our
37:38 rocket round we ask all of our uh guests
37:40 three questions so our first question I
37:43 think I know the answer but I’m gonna
37:44 ask it anyways what do you like to do in
37:46 your free time besides Kei I’m gonna add
37:48 that
37:49 little oh now that’s a killer uh yeah I
37:54 love spend I love spending time with my
37:55 grandchildren regardless what we’re
37:57 doing uh but mostly what it is that I
37:59 love to be outside so I live in the sier
38:01 Nevadas uh it is a great place I’ve
38:03 lived in many places worked all over the
38:06 world and this is still one of the most
38:07 beautiful places so my wife and I did uh
38:11 2929 uh the last several years which is
38:14 hiking up the equivalent of Everest in
38:16 36 hours and uh do those at at various
38:20 ski resorts and then this year we did a
38:23 uh three backto back to back marathons
38:26 uh total of 80 I I think it was 83 miles
38:29 in 3 days 16,000 vertical feet in the
38:32 sier Nevadas so other than being in
38:34 skiing now I ski generally a little more
38:36 than 100 days a year and that is my
38:38 passion and most people would tell you
38:40 it’s my first love I’ve not heard I
38:43 don’t know how you do it 100 days he
38:44 does I’m telling you man I’ve not heard
38:45 of 2929 29 i i sumed m r I did a lot of
38:49 mountain climbing I love mountain
38:50 climbing but running is like oh so
38:51 unbearable for
38:53 me awesome let’s go you know how many
38:56 marathons I done before these three back
38:58 to so it’s Thursday Friday Saturday
38:59 Marathon each day you know how many
39:01 marathons i’ done in my life before that
39:03 Zer exactly
39:05 zero no I just yeah I one day I’ll do
39:08 one day I’ll do at least a half marathon
39:09 so we’ll see um all right next question
39:12 most memorable moment in your business
39:15 Journey one of the ones that I use over
39:17 and over and over again is the one with
39:19 Rick where you know I go back to that
39:23 scenario which is he said you know you
39:24 just bought your company for $35 million
39:27 no and so at the end of the day you know
39:30 but there’s everything from getting that
39:31 first check to having that huge downturn
39:34 to being able to survive something
39:36 saying I’m still standing so there’s so
39:38 many great memories about being in
39:40 business and so many you know what
39:42 people would deem as bad memories but
39:45 there’s there’s the you know strategic
39:47 coach is one of the greatest things I
39:48 could ever tell an entrepreneur to join
39:50 and I’ve been a member of strategic
39:51 coach with Dan solam for almost a
39:53 quarter of a century this is this year
39:55 is a quarter of a century for me and in
39:58 that he says you know he has he has a
40:00 bunch of tools that you can use as an
40:02 entrepreneur and uh it is one of them is
40:05 the transformation so it’s when it’s the
40:08 experienced Transformer or
40:10 transformation experienced
40:11 transformation you can look it up great
40:12 great tool and it’s every time you go
40:15 through something whether it’s a good
40:16 outcome or a bad outcome you sit down
40:19 and you write what you learned yeah so
40:22 what were the good parts what were the
40:23 bad parts and so that’s been a big part
40:25 of my transition over all of my life and
40:28 for the last you know quarter century is
40:29 each time we go through these things
40:31 it’s neither good nor bad you know it is
40:33 just is and what do we learn from it
40:35 awesome and you’re probably the I think
40:37 the third person in the past three
40:39 months to push strategic coach on me and
40:41 Katherine from you know she’s one of our
40:42 listeners Katherine from strategic coach
40:43 he calls me every week and I have not
40:45 answered her but but I you know I think
40:48 someone had given her my number as a
40:49 potential uh fit for that so but I’ve
40:51 heard great things about it yeah D Dan
40:53 Sullivan is an amazing person and I’ll
40:56 just I’ll just say this that uh 25 years
40:59 ago you had to show your tax returns and
41:01 they had like three levels so you had to
41:03 make a quarter million half million or a
41:04 million to get put into whatever
41:06 category you’re going to be in at that
41:09 time and Dan always said the million the
41:11 people making a million are much easier
41:12 to coach than the people making a
41:14 quarter million because the people that
41:15 make making a quarter million think they
41:16 know it all and the people that make a
41:18 million a year know they know nothing
41:20 and they need to surround themselves
41:21 with the who’s that know something and
41:23 so that has been a great piece all the
41:26 way through so that Lees Theory third
41:28 final question what is your favorite
41:30 tool or
41:31 resource
41:33 op other people’s experience so it’s
41:37 painful to learn all the lessons
41:39 yourself and we just don’t live long
41:40 enough so there’s someone that loves
41:44 what you hate or what you’re not good at
41:47 and so in building businesses you need
41:49 to find the people that love what they
41:51 do as much as you love what you do and
41:54 collect that that team and they don’t
41:56 have to always be employees lot lot of
41:57 times they’re not uh but it’s the other
41:59 people and Dan again back to Dan
42:01 Sullivan uh he co-authored a book called
42:04 The Who not how um so this isn’t just a
42:06 push for strategic coach but there are
42:08 so much things that get out I didn’t
42:09 realize it was the same guy that wrote
42:11 that book and that did strategic coach
42:12 interesting yeah so uh the other one is
42:15 genius Network I got to tell you any any
42:17 of the people out there and Casey I
42:19 invited you to that to the event uh in
42:21 next November I’ll invite you again but
42:23 the genius network is something to check
42:25 out because it’s it’s phenomenal uh
42:27 especially when in uh learning a number
42:30 of different things but get get around
42:31 the ho every time you need to solve a
42:34 problem you don’t have to necessarily
42:35 think about how to solve that problem
42:36 you need to think who knows who’s
42:38 already solved this problem and how can
42:39 I get them so that piece of advice has
42:42 led me to to come to Ben and Ferris and
42:44 say hey let’s talk about buying
42:47 companies because I was wondering
42:50 pondering you even said it to me you
42:52 said who not how and you said it
42:54 multiple times and I was like that’s
42:55 right I got to find the guys that know
42:56 to do the things that I’m not great at
42:58 to let me go do the things that I am
43:00 great at y h Tom definitely love all the
43:04 knowledge and I’m still a little
43:06 disappointed in Casey that we haven’t
43:07 gone out and skied with you although I’m
43:09 you know just full awareness I’m gonna
43:10 snowboard so I might get in your way or
43:12 you know so we can’t pick an all ski
43:13 mountain but you know definitely gotta
43:15 come out there and ski with you here
43:17 sometime soon so I do I do bored uh but
43:20 I am a far better skier than I am a
43:22 border so and I don’t although my
43:25 son-in-law my oldest son-in-law would
43:27 probably tell you differently I don’t
43:28 pick on snowboarders anymore I just it’s
43:30 the difference between like mountain
43:32 bikers and and uh Ries right so I do
43:36 both uh and uh it was always kind of
43:38 funny it’s like you know you know if
43:40 you’ve got a uh two mountain bikers in a
43:44 car who’s
43:45 driving and the answer is the police
43:47 officer right so and you have these kind
43:50 of jokes back and forth so skiers do the
43:52 same with snowboarders but I’m I’m a
43:53 much more refined person other than I’d
43:55 say you know Sister talk we’re talking
43:58 about biking you know I’m a mountain
43:59 biker I’m guessing you’re the Roadie I’m
44:01 both yeah all right yeah perfect Tom
44:04 real quick how how can somebody get out
44:05 to you how can they reach out to you if
44:07 they wanted to get some information I
44:08 know you’ve got a podcast you’ve got a
44:09 lot of things how can they stay in
44:11 contact you know the the podcast is
44:13 called the PO perspective uh the easiest
44:16 way is just my name is Thomas jp.com and
44:20 you can find the website on there and
44:22 read a little bit about the things that
44:23 we’re involved in uh we we are
44:26 relatively quiet and private and don’t
44:28 have a big advertising thing out there
44:31 uh at various pieces but the people that
44:32 know me know me uh and you know I’m
44:34 always on LinkedIn as well so Thomas J
44:36 pal just follow the name perfect love
44:39 that on the show notes Tom thanks so
44:40 much as always your friendship has been
44:43 unbelievable appreciate you very much
44:45 and thanks for being here than you Tom
44:46 we’ll definitely see you here sometime
44:48 soon you got it take care ciao thank you
44:50 for listening to the m&a Launchpad
44:52 podcast if you’ve enjoyed today’s
44:54 podcast and would like to support us
44:55 please leave us a rating and a review
44:57 after you listen I’m Casey menu and I
44:59 look forward to talking with you next
45:00 week
