In this episode of the M&A Launchpad Podcast, Casey Minshew and Feras Moussa interview Bryan Rand, CEO of Rand & Co Holdings, who delves into the intricacies of being an independent sponsor. Bryan explains the dual aspects of the role: accelerating growth for small businesses and acquiring legacy companies.
Key topics include deal structuring, the benefits of private credit, and sale-leaseback arrangements. Bryan also shares insights from his entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing the importance of strategic partnerships and robust operational models. The discussion offers valuable tips for budding entrepreneurs and established investors alike.
In this episode
- What is an Independent Sponsor?
- How does an Independent Sponsor differ from a searcher or an ETA
- Sale Leasebacks and how you can use them
- Take advantage of the private credit/cash flow loan explosion
- How everybody wins! There’s so much opportunity in this market.
You can contact Bryan Rand on his website: https://rand-co.com/
Additional Resources:
- Work with a Trusted Quality of Earnings and Financial Diligence Partner who focuses solely on Business Acquisitions: Schedule a discovery call with Patrick of O’Connell Advisory Group—Your Dynamic Quality of Earnings Partner. https://oconnelladvisorygroup.com/
- Access our archive of video interviews on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MALaunchpad
- Get in touch with show hosts Casey Minshew and Feras Moussa at – info@equitylaunchpad.com
- Looking to invest in M&A opportunities or partner with an advisor to acquire, scale or sell your business? Visit Equity Launchpad https://equity-launchpad.com/
- Love this podcast? Join the M&A Launchpad Community at the M&A Launchpad Conference on May 3rd in Houston. Get your tickets here: https://www.malaunchpad.com/
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Transcript
00:00 all right on today’s episode we
00:01 interviewed Brian Rand where we really
00:03 dived into what it looks like to be an
00:05 independent sponsor and in his world
00:07 right there’s really two sides to it
00:09 there’s kind of the growth side around
00:11 finding an existing technician and
00:12 really jet fueling them to go and
00:14 complete a successful company and
00:16 building it up and then the other side
00:18 of it is buying a legacy business and I
00:20 mean it’s a really a jam-packed session
00:22 so Casey War some of your takeaways you
00:24 know Ferris as a as an entrepreneur
00:26 doing uh Acquisitions and doing this
00:29 stuff we always think about scale we
00:30 think about how do we do more than one
00:33 what does it look like oh I need a
00:34 holding company how do I take this
00:36 holding company and grow and scale and
00:38 do I have to always personally guarantee
00:40 the SBA node and how do I get capital I
00:42 mean this is the whole world of
00:44 independent sponsoring okay it is a
00:45 whole new conversation for most people
00:48 and I’m telling you Dive Right In this
00:50 is just a wealth of information Ryan is
00:53 a superstar and there’s a lot happening
00:55 in that space yeah there’s a lot of
00:56 information right it’s about having the
00:57 right tools and again we kind of dive
00:59 into one example where he’s able to buy
01:01 a business and own it 100% right brought
01:03 a little bit of equity but again with
01:05 the right structuring with the right
01:06 tools you’re able to go accomplish some
01:08 really cool things in the independent
01:09 sponsor world so that’s this
01:14 episode all right guys just take one
01:16 second here real quick when you’re
01:18 buying a business ensuring the financial
01:19 health of the company is critical and
01:21 that’s where a quality of earnings
01:22 partner comes in quality of earnings
01:24 gives you confidence in the financials
01:25 of the company that you’re purchasing it
01:27 aims to protect your investment and
01:29 ensure that you’re stepping into a
01:30 profitable business on Dat Patrick of
01:33 oconnell Advisory Group is your Dynamic
01:34 quality earnie’s partner he’s here to
01:36 help you buy the right business on your
01:38 timeline Patrick’s entire practice is
01:40 focused on business Acquisitions your
01:41 Niche is his Niche and over the past
01:44 decade Patrick’s helped more than 200
01:45 buyers like yourself successfully
01:47 purchase and operate enduring profitable
01:49 businesses in fact Patrick’s helped some
01:51 listeners of this show so if you’re
01:53 buying looking for help with the quality
01:55 of earnings Financial due diligence
01:57 Network capital and more head to
01:59 oconnell advisory group.com or just
02:01 click the link in the show notes Ryan
02:02 welcome to the show thank you thank you
02:04 happy to be here I’m excited to have you
02:06 on I heard a lot of great things so
02:07 Casey spoke KY of you so go ahead Casey
02:09 yeah no we were at that that the
02:11 conference and I always say the law
02:12 firm’s name wrong but uh oh Maguire
02:15 Woods yeah Maguire Woods conference
02:17 bumped into you in the hallway you know
02:20 uh you were looking good you look sharp
02:21 you had your Flyers you were hustling
02:23 and I was like I got to talk to this guy
02:25 and uh man you blew me away because you
02:27 know we’ve been more into the mindset
02:30 going to these etas talking more of the
02:33 search model right thinking about that
02:35 world and then I got introduced to the
02:37 word independent sponsor last year and
02:39 it just okay then I went to the
02:41 conference and then you explained it for
02:43 me in 10 minutes I was like we’ve got to
02:44 have you on this on this podcast yeah
02:46 because you know because we did our own
02:47 deal right and you know we knew we
02:49 weren’t ETA we you know we didn’t quite
02:51 know what we were and then Casey went to
02:53 that conference came back it’s like all
02:54 right I know exactly what we are now so
02:56 independent sponsor so Brian for those
02:58 listeners do you want to maybe go ahead
02:60 and explain what is an independent
03:01 sponsor and then after that kind of just
03:03 dive in a little bit of your background
03:04 right and kind of how you got into where
03:06 you are today sure so let me take it in
03:08 that order so you know an independent
03:11 sponsor is either a person or a group
03:13 who is actually going to purchase a
03:16 business and drive the governance and
03:19 operations of the business but not as a
03:22 day-to-day operator right and so similar
03:25 to what a funded private Equity Firm
03:27 would do really kind of identifying the
03:29 business going out finding and
03:31 negotiating with the owner of that
03:33 business closing on that business and
03:36 then driving you know often like finding
03:38 a CEO driving the management team
03:40 driving and pushing to exit where
03:43 they’re different than a private Equity
03:44 Firm is rather than having raised a
03:46 large pool of committed Capital they’ve
03:49 actually on a deal by deal basis find
03:52 both the debt and the equity to do that
03:54 deal and so you know for years they were
03:57 called fundless sponsors and people
03:59 would kind of be dismissed and say well
04:01 how can you buy a business without a
04:03 fund but now the Market’s evolved and
04:06 we’ve gotten to a point now where there
04:08 are number of providers of both equity
04:11 and debt who love to back independent
04:14 sponsors there families who are excited
04:16 to say hey rather than committing
04:18 upfront to a five to 10 year period
04:21 where I don’t know what I’m getting and
04:22 doing Blind pool Investments having
04:24 someone come with a deal and then being
04:27 able to invest in that specific deal and
04:30 and then frankly for you know investors
04:33 and Company Builders and independent
04:34 sponsors and folks like myself there’s
04:37 actually a lot of value to having the
04:40 potential upside TI to that one deal
04:42 you’re excited about rather than blend
04:44 it into a fund where any one deal going
04:47 bad could blow up the Returns versus if
04:50 the money is there deal by deal is the
04:52 way to go so that that’s sort of what an
04:54 independent sponsor is and really quick
04:56 how’s that for the for the listeners
04:57 that are probably asking the same
04:58 question what makes it different than a
05:00 or ETA sure so you know I think if you
05:04 look at kind of search and often
05:07 especially funded search and I say this
05:09 with respect to all the eters out there
05:12 and the Searchers out there there’s
05:14 multiple ways to do it but I look at
05:16 funded search and it reminds me of like
05:18 1990s rap deals like they’re terrible
05:22 deals right that the in exchange for an
05:25 80k salary all of the upside gets eaten
05:30 away right and so you know for us when
05:33 you kind of think about sort of the
05:35 difference a lot of the ETA and search
05:38 space are really with the idea that the
05:41 person doing it the person doing the
05:43 search will actually go run the business
05:46 right that that’s typically the model
05:48 that the idea is hey I I’m raising
05:50 capital for one business I’m going to go
05:53 do it and then you’re going to go run it
05:55 on the independent sponsor side they’re
05:57 generally larger businesses require
05:59 different different level of
06:01 capitalization but you’re owning them as
06:03 an owner as a chairman as a sponsor and
06:07 having a professional management team
06:09 underneath so that those are generally
06:11 the best deals and then and the
06:13 economics are different as well so Brian
06:15 one of the things that blew me away um
06:17 at that conference I mean I think you
06:19 pitched I mean I think there was over a
06:21 thousand private Equity firms that were
06:23 actually dying to have you bring them a
06:26 deal yep that’s what blew me away that
06:28 was what was shocking SBA is not sitting
06:30 there like all like when you go into the
06:32 other world right there you’re talking
06:34 about non-recourse financing you’re
06:36 talking about growth Partners that’s the
06:38 stuff that I came back to Ferris and I
06:40 was like oh my God this is the space so
06:43 dive into more of that stuff right and
06:45 that and that’s why I mean the space has
06:47 grown because of that same dynamic
06:50 because what’s happened is if you’re a
06:52 private Equity Fund with a large pool of
06:54 committed Capital you’re jamming up and
06:56 competing against all of your peers in a
06:58 market that’s gotten increasingly
06:60 crowded over the past you know
07:03 especially decade but even even more
07:05 than that and so to the extent someone
07:07 comes and they’ve worked their Network
07:10 whether they’re kind of aggressive
07:12 business people who have an industry
07:14 expertise whether they’re just kind of a
07:16 country club deal where they just struck
07:17 gold somebody can come and have a deal
07:20 that it’s just not what the institutions
07:22 are able to find and so for that person
07:25 to come and say hey I’ve got a deal
07:28 under contract I just need your capital
07:30 it’s a win-win it’s something they could
07:31 never get through the banks that
07:33 individual now didn’t have to go through
07:35 the pain of raising the equity and for
07:38 sort of a a different share split it’s a
07:40 win for everybody and frankly one of the
07:43 dirty secrets for overworked kind of
07:45 over expanded private Equity firms
07:47 having an independent sponsor who’s
07:49 going to do the daytoday work who’s G to
07:52 really be in there every day and so now
07:54 the private Equity Firm can kind of just
07:56 weigh in and do their call every other
07:58 week rather than kind of you know going
08:00 out to Cleveland to go go to these
08:02 industry conferences and all that kind
08:04 of stuff that’s a real value to those
08:06 private Equity firms as well so it’s not
08:08 just finding off Market or cheap deals
08:11 but having sort of an experienced hand
08:13 at the wheel who has their own skin in
08:15 the game it’s a win-win for both sides
08:17 and that that’s why you seen the market
08:18 explode awesome and and I do want to
08:21 dive into kind of maybe people better
08:23 understanding what those steal
08:24 structures look like but before we do
08:25 that really quick Brian you want to kind
08:26 of just give a little bit of your
08:27 background as well and kind of what L
08:29 where you are today sure I’ll give you
08:30 kind of the quick background I’m Brian
08:32 Rand I’m CEO of randing Co Holdings we
08:36 are a private holding company where we
08:38 own a number of different platforms
08:40 private businesses across different
08:42 Industries and geographies all across
08:44 the United States where we are different
08:47 than many firms is we’ve actually used
08:49 our own capital or those of our close
08:51 Partners to buy these businesses on the
08:53 equity side and so you know our
08:56 preferred holding period is forever
08:58 right but that said every once in a
08:60 while we’re capitalists we can move in
09:01 and out and so we’re different than an
09:03 Institutional private Equity Fund
09:05 because we haven’t you know raised a
09:07 committed third party fund but we’re
09:09 even different than many independent
09:10 sponsors in that we don’t always go and
09:14 raise institutional Equity to do a deal
09:16 we’ve been fortunate over the past
09:18 decade to build a meaningful platform
09:19 that generates cash flow and we can use
09:21 our cash flow to do the deals but
09:23 because of my background I grew up in
09:26 that investment banking and private
09:28 Equity world I started out of undergrad
09:30 went to undergrad at morouse College my
09:33 my alma moer I’m super proud of went up
09:35 to New York credit Swiss did Investment
09:37 Banking credit Swiss actually paid for
09:39 me to go to Harvard Business School
09:41 brought me back in their private Equity
09:42 Group and frankly I would have spent my
09:44 whole life there but what ended up
09:46 happening was in 2009 the world was
09:49 blowing up during the financial crisis
09:51 credit Swiss actually said hey we’re
09:53 getting out of the private Equity
09:55 business we don’t want to do this ill
09:57 liquid investing we don’t want to
09:58 compete against our clients and so I
09:60 actually partnered with the gentleman
10:01 who’s the head of the special situations
10:03 group at that time which was a debt fund
10:06 that did exotic Investments I’d met him
10:08 through work there had been deals where
10:10 I was in the private Equity Group as a
10:12 junior professional he was the head of
10:14 that debt group and so we would look at
10:15 buying companies where the private
10:17 Equity May own the equity and then he
10:18 could provide the debt so we built a
10:20 relationship and he came to me and said
10:21 hey they’re closing my business as well
10:23 I want to make a bid and buy it from the
10:25 bank and so a very long story short we
10:30 actually got that deal done found the
10:32 money in Asia got a very attractive
10:35 seller financing deal from the bank
10:37 because they wanted the loans off of the
10:39 books and as many of you know the junk
10:41 actually sna back the hardest so a year
10:44 and a day after we did that deal we’re
10:47 able to exit the majority of the
10:49 portfolio for a north of 10x return and
10:52 so it’s just one of these kind of Great
10:54 Moments in capitalism and post that the
10:57 folks who were involved some kind of
10:59 stayed and kind of wanted to to do that
11:01 I kind of was in a position where I
11:02 wanted to kind of see what was out there
11:04 and kind of had moved to doing some kind
11:05 of independent advising and investing
11:08 because we’d had some success right and
11:10 so I didn’t want to be a kind of
11:11 midlevel at ABC Capital anymore but kind
11:13 of having had that experience what I saw
11:16 was you know look I don’t think I want
11:18 to be just another provider of capital
11:22 that from my perspective private Equity
11:24 guys they’re they’re great there’s a a
11:26 real function in the system and it’s a
11:28 great way to build wealth but the kind
11:30 of impact I wanted to have would be
11:31 different you know on my obituary you
11:34 know on my headstone I don’t want to
11:35 just be say he sold money right because
11:37 at the end of the day private Equity
11:39 guys are just out selling money and I
11:40 think there’s a chance to kind of really
11:42 build meaningful businesses and so I
11:44 fast forwarded from that moment on the
11:46 back of that success to doing some small
11:48 advising and investing and begin to
11:50 interact with different companies where
11:53 I could buy a small stake really
11:55 understand what it was to truly be an
11:58 investor with your own capital and then
11:60 what that has progressed into was where
12:03 we are today where some of those
12:05 businesses that we’ve invested in and
12:07 the team that I built began to have
12:09 meaningful success really took off
12:11 generate cash flow and and wins that
12:14 we’ve been able to double down and
12:16 reinvest and reinvest and so that’s
12:19 really become a virtuous cycle where we
12:21 said hey we think we can do it and I’m
12:24 happy to tell you a little bit about our
12:25 model but if you kind of ask about our
12:26 story kind of think growing up in
12:28 institutional private equity
12:30 I love it having that spin out and then
12:32 really moving into the where we are
12:33 today you know we’re talking about a lot
12:35 of this is also what we call the lower
12:38 Middle Market right this is that this is
12:40 that space where a lot of the bigger
12:42 private Equity is not really wanting to
12:43 get down they want they want to find the
12:46 Brian they want to find the Casey and
12:47 Ferris that are looking for those lower
12:49 Middle Market deals to go and and put it
12:51 all together right so I think when last
12:54 time we talked You’ had I think t 10
12:56 companies in your portfolio maybe more
12:58 um you you thousands of employees I mean
13:01 you have some pretty good staggering
13:03 numbers on on your growth you don’t mind
13:04 sharing with us kind of the success you
13:06 guys have had sure so you know you know
13:10 I’m I’m I’m proud of what we’ve done
13:11 right and um it hasn’t been an accident
13:14 now people just see the finished product
13:16 and don’t realize all the slog to get
13:18 there trust me oh my gosh I mean I I I I
13:21 feel like we could scare off a couple
13:23 listeners um but also maybe attract a
13:25 couple on just the actual reality of
13:27 owning these businesses right people see
13:29 the product but they don’t see Capital
13:31 calls and stress and the lawsuits and
13:33 everything that comes with it but just
13:35 tell you a little bit about our platform
13:37 we really do two types of deals we’ll do
13:39 one what we call a legacy buyout and so
13:42 a legacy buyout is we like to buy a
13:44 business that’s been around at least 30
13:46 to 40 years so I’m generally buying
13:48 directly from kind of a a baby boomer or
13:51 a group of a family and in those
13:54 businesses you know we like a very
13:57 specific Dynamic where we want to
13:59 business that has been very steady but
14:01 generally has some level of hair some
14:04 level of complexity some level of
14:07 difficulty that will scare folks off and
14:09 then we will bring in a CEO who has been
14:12 in that industry and had success at
14:14 exactly the level we want to achieve so
14:17 like where we would be different from an
14:18 ETA or Searcher is all respect to other
14:21 folks a lot of people do it well but I
14:23 always use the the kind of the joke
14:25 we’re not partnering with guys in Blue
14:27 Jackets or girls in pencil skirts who
14:29 kind of just where they used to work or
14:31 that they have a good idea I want
14:33 someone who’s done it exactly so I’ll
14:34 give an example in our portfolio we own
14:36 thco Solutions spco Solutions make steel
14:40 furniture for corporations I’ll give an
14:41 example we’re the largest producer of
14:44 undercounter Steel at banks in the
14:46 country so if you think drawers lock
14:48 boxes we make them for many of the banks
14:51 in the United States right on that the
14:54 business also makes steel lab equipment
14:56 so I think fum hoods and chairs we make
14:59 checkout counters for many dollar stores
15:02 and other retailers but when we were
15:04 buying that business there were a number
15:06 of people who heard wait you make
15:08 undercounter Ste at Banks Bank branches
15:11 are closing and wanted to run away and
15:13 so for us we looked at it and said hey
15:17 actually when you really look into this
15:19 lab has got great Tailwinds is a high
15:22 growing sector and that this Bank side
15:25 is super super resilient and so I love a
15:27 situation so Casey when they when the
15:30 world sees a melting Ice Cube I see them
15:33 get mispriced over and over they think
15:36 it’s going to melt faster than it does
15:38 and so I can go buy that and experience
15:41 the growth but then have the call option
15:43 right kind of think of the bond of the
15:45 steady business but the call option of
15:46 the growing business and they get
15:48 mispriced and that was a great example
15:50 and so that was a business where when we
15:52 bought it was you know just under 20
15:54 million in Revenue 3 million M via and
15:58 since then we’ve grown Revenue more than
16:01 doubled Revenue significantly grown iida
16:05 that was a business where just to give
16:06 some of your listeners the detail that I
16:08 think they’re looking for absolutely
16:10 where our model was a little different
16:12 was we were able to get a cash flow loan
16:15 from a a great lender that you know
16:17 we’ve enjoyed working with and that has
16:20 has been a great partner we were able to
16:22 structure a specific deal on the was
16:25 related to the real estate where we were
16:27 able to execute a sale lease back uh on
16:29 the real estate and then I wrote a check
16:32 for the equity and I own it so it’s not
16:35 a diff it’s not like an equity break
16:38 that down we gotta break that down
16:40 brother because I’m telling you right
16:41 now that is like it’s gold because I
16:43 mean like these are things that like and
16:44 I’m telling you to our listeners like
16:46 right now like I just learned about a
16:48 cell East back literally six months ago
16:51 I left the same conference that you were
16:52 at bumped into a group and they said
16:54 have you ever heard of this and I was
16:56 like honestly I never thought about it
16:58 and it move me away right so let’s kind
17:01 of peel back to onion there yeah and for
17:02 the sell eback and it’s funny because
17:04 I’ve known about sell eback but never
17:05 really registered about doing it in this
17:07 context right because you know for those
17:09 listeners if you have a seller that
17:11 wants to sell the real estate like we
17:12 have an example this right now where the
17:14 seller hey I need someone to buy it all
17:16 he doesn’t want to sell just the
17:18 business right you can either buy the
17:19 real estate which typically you’re
17:21 paying a much higher premium than what a
17:22 business right 4X multiple versus a 5x
17:25 cap which is you know significant
17:27 difference in terms of valuations you
17:29 got to bring your bigger check amount
17:30 for that real estate or you find a
17:33 company that’s okay taking on that lower
17:35 yield that lower return real estate’s
17:37 considered being a very low risk and
17:39 that’s why they’ll accept it and they
17:41 will basically cash out the seller but
17:43 now if you’re smart about it right you
17:46 can actually play with your rents to use
17:48 it as a mechanism to get cash out and so
17:50 what we mean by that is ultimately the
17:52 value of the real estate that a company
17:53 will buy it for it’s tied to what rents
17:56 are being paid exactly and so you know
17:58 Brian in your example if you know that
17:60 you can afford to let’s just make it
18:02 simple pay another $10,000 more a month
18:04 in rent well that $10,000
18:08 $120,000 of cash a year that at a five
18:11 cap you’re probably taking about $2
18:13 million of value added to the real
18:15 estate that a sell leaseback will pay
18:17 that premium for and now you can use
18:20 that to get two million out of maybe
18:21 what the seller wanted to actually apply
18:23 to the equity check that you’re going to
18:24 have to bring I mean you you you
18:27 described it perfectly and what what’s
18:29 been great is as the capital markets
18:32 have evolved right and more independent
18:34 sponsors and private Equity firms are
18:36 doing more and more business in the
18:37 Middle Market there’s multiple ways to
18:39 do it so now there are a number of fun
18:42 my email box probably you know I get
18:44 four folks a day saying hey can we do
18:47 your sale leasebacks because they only
18:48 want the real estate right and so what’s
18:51 happened is to your point one you can go
18:55 to many of these folks and and I say
18:57 Boomer owners because it’s such a
18:58 prevalent part of the midm market where
19:01 especially in Legacy buyouts in Legacy
19:03 buyouts right where folks will have a
19:05 business but they also own the real
19:07 estate and often they own the real
19:09 estate either unlevered or they own it
19:11 at very low leverage because they’ve had
19:13 it for a long time they may charge some
19:15 themselves some rent but they don’t
19:16 charge themselves to your point of
19:18 Market rent W and so if you’re buying a
19:21 business and you look at it and you say
19:23 hey this business can AFF this is a very
19:25 stable business it’s a legacy it’s been
19:27 around for a long time it can afford a
19:28 market Mark rent the price that you pay
19:31 for that business can potentially be a
19:34 way to Arbitrage the ownership of the
19:36 business down to a lower price so I’ll
19:38 give an example just so it’s it’s
19:40 Crystal Clear in a world where you can
19:43 to your point increase that rent if you
19:45 make a combined offer for the business
19:47 and the real estate in their mind they
19:50 have the real estate often valued with
19:52 the rent they’re paying but if you can
19:53 increase that to a market rent you can
19:56 actually say hey we’re going to pay you
19:58 just to use an example well you know
19:60 we’ll pay you 20 million for the
20:01 business and in their mind they think
20:03 hey the business and the real estate and
20:05 they think the real estate’s worth eight
20:06 but if you can increase those rents to a
20:09 market level you can’t get too cute but
20:11 to a market level and it’s actually
20:13 worth 10 and then you have someone else
20:15 buy that for 10 or you structure it that
20:17 then you now own the business instead of
20:19 paying 12 for the business you paid 10
20:21 and then you know you get your cash flow
20:24 loan based off of the new revised cash
20:26 flow all right now let’s talk about that
20:28 cash flow loan because this is that part
20:30 where we were at at the conference
20:31 together so these guys this is you’re
20:34 talking about non-recourse right so
20:36 we’re not we’re not pledging our our
20:38 houses and things like that that we that
20:40 I have an loan so I know how that works
20:43 third born Casey I know I know how it
20:45 works so then I learned about this I’m
20:46 like oh my God so talk a little bit
20:48 about that that that private credit that
20:50 that that that Finance side sure so the
20:53 the private credit Market has just
20:56 exploded over the past 15 years years
20:59 there’s been kind of it’s gone
21:00 stratospheric as interest rate interest
21:02 rate rais over the past couple years but
21:04 where I think the markets have changed
21:06 to your point for the folks that would
21:08 be listening to this is there are so
21:10 many providers of cash flow loans that
21:13 you can use to buy Finance grow or
21:17 refinance your businesses that didn’t
21:19 exist and that frankly I have found them
21:22 better sources of capital than the Big
21:24 Money Center bank money center Banks
21:27 right that they are better set up to do
21:28 deal are set up to move more quickly the
21:31 money’s more expensive often in rate but
21:34 what’s relevant for our listeners is if
21:37 you think that you’ve got for instance
21:39 the fiveyear hold period you may be
21:41 willing to pay a little bit more rate
21:43 because these cash flow loans often
21:45 don’t have amortization so yeah your you
21:48 know loan that you got from you know the
21:51 local Term Loan or whether it was you
21:53 know Chase or whether it was live o or
21:56 these guys has both interest and amor
21:59 and if you think you’re going to have
22:00 fiveyear holds you think you’re going to
22:02 grow pretty quickly you feel good about
22:05 you know what you’re doing then frankly
22:07 the actual cash burden on the business
22:10 which for us as sponsors for us as
22:12 investors is what matters at the end of
22:14 the day whether it’s going to pay down
22:15 debt or whether it’s going to pay
22:16 interest our point is can we make the
22:18 payment and if you know you can make the
22:21 payment then actually like having a cash
22:23 flow loan it’s more flexible now it’s
22:26 more rate and then in some instances
22:29 they may require some Equity some
22:32 participation but frankly as I’ve
22:34 learned the better the deal the better
22:36 you can negotiate and one thing that I
22:39 think will be useful for people is the
22:42 more thought you put in the more time
22:45 the more baked you are I think the
22:47 better chance you have of getting this
22:48 done and frankly these loans you know
22:51 they used to only be available to you
22:53 know 5 to 10 million of Eid plus then it
22:56 was they were only available to three
22:58 million of E die honestly the credit
22:60 markets have changed I’m not saying
23:02 they’re easy to find but there are folks
23:04 out there who will do you know one three
23:07 $5 million cash flow loans now they want
23:09 a quality partner they may not be the
23:11 first person for you know they may not
23:13 be the a great bet for your first deal
23:16 but they actually exist and so when we
23:19 were at that conference me finding folks
23:21 who I may find a really interesting
23:23 opportunity that starts small and so
23:25 being able to find a cash FL loan where
23:27 I don’t need to have guarantees where I
23:29 have somebody who can kind of go to
23:30 committee I know I can get a deal done
23:32 in 30 or 45 days it’s actually very
23:35 valuable to have the folks who can do
23:36 the small ones especially when you’re
23:37 using your own Capital like me so oh
23:40 it’s huge it’s it’s huge you use sales
23:41 Le back cash flow alone and you get a
23:44 good seller carry note right there man
23:47 I’m talking all day long great deal I
23:50 did not know everybody’s happy yeah I
23:52 did not know about private credit when
23:54 we did our acquisition H&M you know it’s
23:56 a $20 million acquisition there’s a lot
23:58 of pgs we we we we threw anything and
24:01 everything to get it done right it was
24:03 like whatever it takes now we’re looking
24:05 back we’re going okay we’re we’re we’re
24:07 we’re about to make another acquisition
24:09 bolt on we’ve already had a couple
24:11 conversations with a few people and
24:12 they’re like hey you get deal number two
24:14 done get that noi where it’s at we’ll
24:16 take it all out and we like the idea of
24:19 private grow yeah I mean frankly I bet I
24:21 wouldn’t be surprised if you could refi
24:24 using some one of these cash flow guys
24:25 to do number two so one other thing I
24:27 want to throw out there Casey just
24:29 because I have found it valuable and I
24:31 don’t see it a lot in the market so when
24:33 we’re buying businesses you know we’re
24:35 often not always buying 100% right and
24:38 so we’re buying control and so whether
24:40 it’s we buy 50 60 whatever purchase
24:42 options I have found sellers often
24:45 frequently discounted right if you
24:47 really feel like you’ve got a path to
24:49 grow building in an option to say hey
24:52 I’ve got a right to buy and pick a
24:54 number it may even feel like a high one
24:56 but at a 30% premium a 40% premium
24:59 whatever the you know a set multiple but
25:02 being able to say hey for the next 5
25:05 years I can buy more of this thing
25:07 people really often underprice that
25:10 right because at the end of the day they
25:11 care about their cash and clothes but
25:13 where there’s real value for us as folks
25:15 who can just think longer than that that
25:18 term is is really getting that that
25:20 value so yeah you may have that seller
25:22 note but you may say hey I’ve got the
25:23 right to buy it out on really attractive
25:26 terms and at that point you know what
25:28 they really care about is they’re
25:29 cashing clothes and in their mind they
25:31 think that that number is already so big
25:33 that of course I’d sell it for a 20%
25:35 premium but then they don’t realize that
25:37 hey in the course of five years you know
25:39 maybe if you have a handle on it you
25:41 double the business and now that 20%
25:43 really left 80% on the table so you know
25:46 and it’s usually levered up so it’s
25:47 really they left even more than 20% of
25:48 the table so and having that
25:50 pre-negotiated is is what’s so critical
25:53 no it’s one of those things like I said
25:53 I tell people like there are some simple
25:55 things that are you basically are give
25:56 Mees that any seller will agree to that
25:59 they’re your rip cord they’re there if
26:00 you need it and if it works out now
26:02 you’ve really you know made something
26:04 very very valuable y so let me let me go
26:08 I want to talk just really briefly about
26:10 the second type of deal we do so that
26:12 you kind of so we’ve talked about Legacy
26:13 bials and I think people are pretty
26:15 familiar with that model and it sounds
26:16 you know we have our spin on it but
26:18 that’s I think more common the second
26:20 thing we do is what we call a growth
26:22 partnership where we will either start
26:24 from zero or buy a really small platform
26:28 but what we will do is we want to find
26:30 an industry where there are large
26:33 private Equity players or large public
26:35 companies that dominate the market where
26:37 they say Hey you can have it any color
26:39 you want as long as it’s black and what
26:41 we want to do is go find a superstar
26:44 stud operator anything we do it’s going
26:46 to start with you know we’re not running
26:48 this company day-to- day we are
26:50 governance we are financial and
26:51 strategic support but finding someone
26:53 who’s kind of excelled in that space and
26:56 we want to build the speedboat to go
26:58 fight the aircraft carriers and so we’ve
27:01 seen it over and over that all of these
27:04 folks especially when they’re private
27:05 Equity backed when they’re levered all
27:08 of the decision get making gets made at
27:10 the NBA the NBAs and the suits are
27:12 making that but the operators want
27:14 people who can respond quickly so I’ll
27:15 give an example I got a call from
27:18 someone who I looked at years ago I
27:20 looked at doing deals with um out in the
27:22 oil field and he said hey my minty you
27:26 know just really had a tough time major
27:29 private Equity Firm bought his company
27:32 they actually changed his region and cut
27:34 his commission substantially and so he
27:35 said like I you know I just can’t work
27:37 with these people it’s not right this
27:38 isn’t and so we took a look and betting
27:42 on ourselves I had the lawyers look they
27:44 said it’s non-compete was poorly written
27:46 for Texas it was and we actually started
27:49 a business where we would be taking uh
27:52 fuel from Corpus Krispy out to the
27:56 fra if you could imagine to you know
27:59 that’s a 247 business when something
28:02 grows wrong they can’t drill so they
28:05 need responsiveness they need
28:08 thoughtfulness as I have learned very
28:10 painfully it is also a deeply Capital
28:13 intensive business and so there’s a
28:15 reason that the Mom and Pops who can
28:17 pick up the phone immediately didn’t get
28:19 that big because in the oil field you
28:22 know it’s not a trust business if you
28:24 buy fuel you pay for it the next day
28:26 when you service an indust an uh energy
28:28 customer they pay if you’re lucky in 10
28:31 days most likely they pay you in 30 as
28:33 we know 60 yeah so growing a business is
28:37 very very Capital intensive but we saw
28:40 this opportunity to take this gentleman
28:42 who’d been a number one salesperson who
28:45 had deep relationships where we said hey
28:47 we’re not going to go kind of you can’t
28:48 you call your old customers directly but
28:50 you can stay in the business and I given
28:53 you all this Preamble that was in May of
28:55 22 we started from zero we’ve now built
28:58 a business where last month we did 15
29:00 million of Revenue we did it at Double
29:03 Digit eidal margin we own it unlevered
29:06 it’s an awesome opportunity to go and we
29:09 want to build these speedboats and I can
29:12 see it over and over in different
29:14 Industries where you can really build
29:16 the best of breed platform to go cont
29:18 and so you know when you look at our
29:20 platform I’d say half of these are
29:22 growth Partnerships where I’ve either
29:24 bought something really small but each
29:27 time I went to the operator I said I
29:29 want you to do exactly what you’ve done
29:32 before I’m not asking you to to Pivot
29:35 I’m not do exactly what you’ve done
29:36 before but this time you’re going to do
29:38 it as CEO and a co-owner and that’s been
29:40 our model so we’re doing Legacy buyouts
29:42 we’re doing growth Partnerships and I
29:44 think there’s room and we’ve been
29:46 doubling down we’ve been using cash flow
29:48 to do New Deals we’ve had some success
29:49 I’ve grown my team substantially but all
29:52 of us are bought into this model no and
29:55 I think I think you got feris excited
29:57 here no because it’s the same
29:59 talking similar yes yeah I mean it’s
30:01 you’re quantifying a lot of the same
30:02 things that we’re seeing right I think
30:03 there’s huge opportunities a huge
30:05 ecosystem out there and you know Brian
30:07 we’re going to do a deal together
30:08 sometime here soon too but the question
30:10 I have for you though I look I I mean
30:13 but first one of the things I like just
30:15 about our Vibe I always tell people if
30:18 you make the pie big enough you don’t
30:19 have to worry about the size of the
30:21 slices yes I 100% agree with you I mean
30:24 it’s better to have a smaller slice of a
30:25 big pie than a Big Slice of nothing so
30:28 not fighting each other where they say
30:30 what you know you know whatever it is
30:32 10% of a watermelon instead of 100% of a
30:34 grape but frankly like i’ rather 1% of
30:37 the farm right so the way I kind of look
30:40 at this better anology I should use that
30:42 one I think so many of these folks are
30:45 like think that we’re competing against
30:46 each other and I’m saying our economy is
30:50 so robust there’s so many
30:52 opportunities especially where we are in
30:55 the midm market frankly when you’re at
30:57 the top of the Market there’s only so
30:59 many times you can write a billion and a
31:01 half you know a billion dollar check
31:03 there’s only so many companies for sale
31:04 that support it and so those folks are
31:06 fighting for us we can work together we
31:09 can swap you know best notes hey this is
31:12 my experience with this lender or this Q
31:14 provider and like everybody wins right
31:18 there’s there’s more than enough for us
31:19 to create amazing lives for ourselves
31:21 our families and stakeholders and you
31:23 told me that at at the conference you
31:25 told me that R we we talked five minutes
31:27 you gave me your resp Bill we bumped
31:29 into each other a couple more times you
31:31 said that exact thing you’re like hey
31:32 man I’m an open book I think we’ve got a
31:34 ton of opportunity and and that’s what’s
31:36 so awesome about what you’re doing and
31:38 your connections and what you’re
31:39 creating there man um now let me ask you
31:41 this let’s just say one of our listeners
31:43 is saying Hey I want to work for a Brian
31:45 I want to work for somebody like that I
31:46 mean are you looking for people or I
31:48 mean are you looking for for for Sharp
31:50 people I’m I am always looking for for
31:53 people so it’s all about the people man
31:55 the more we’ve grown I’ve realized it’s
31:56 all our time needs to be spent finding
31:58 people nothing else all of us are in the
32:01 people business every business is the
32:03 people business there’s nothing else so
32:05 you know what’s funny is I meet so many
32:07 folks who like try to be hard to find
32:09 that’s just not where we are everybody
32:11 on my team your emails on the website
32:14 your linkedin’s on the website I want
32:16 you to reach out you know that I’m you
32:19 know I’m not that busy and I have found
32:22 so many deals where you know the frog
32:26 that I kissed was the the the that we
32:28 got I had to K three frogs to get there
32:31 right that it you know our average
32:33 gestation period is probably North
32:36 almost two years from like first
32:39 interaction to getting a deal done but I
32:41 would argue like it’s supposed to be
32:43 that way right the idea of just I’m
32:46 gonna meet a stranger in an industry I
32:50 don’t know because a banker I don’t know
32:52 sent me a book and that six months later
32:56 90 days later I’m going to own that
32:58 company and we’re going to have a great
32:59 outcome that that’s different so to your
33:01 point first you got to go like you said
33:03 do the meetings the people the Outreach
33:06 because you know I got connected with
33:10 the CEO of the fuel platform for a deal
33:14 that we didn’t do but he you know
33:15 respected that I’m a straight shooter
33:17 respected that I had good you know a
33:19 good reputation and I got that call four
33:22 years later and you know I’m fine with
33:24 that right I’m hoping to be doing this
33:25 for a long time so that was a lot of
33:28 answer your question but hopefully good
33:29 good context to two good questions for
33:32 you because I think people you there
33:33 questions that I have at least first one
33:36 you know being the best technician right
33:39 the best salesman on the team is very
33:40 different than starting something from
33:42 zero so how do you have the confidence
33:44 that a person you know that had the
33:46 systems in place that performed well you
33:49 know that’s the hard part right of what
33:50 we do I love I love that question I love
33:52 that question the way I look at our
33:54 platform is we we’re there to give them
33:56 almost like the the system and kind of
33:59 babysi them through that because zero to
34:02 one is a lot harder I think than one to
34:03 two in a lot of ways right and so how do
34:05 you place that bet I love that question
34:08 from my perspective I look at someone
34:10 and I say hey I want you to be able to
34:12 win the work and I want you to be able
34:14 to deliver the work but you don’t need
34:16 to worry about the money you don’t need
34:17 to worry about the accounting you don’t
34:19 need to worry about kind of Marketing
34:21 sales and systems right people who are
34:24 used to institutional level you know
34:26 comms and marketing and all that like
34:29 they don’t even understand how difficult
34:30 that is to build and they don’t need to
34:32 but if I can find a practitioner who has
34:35 either run a p&l run a sales
34:38 organization and then we are in position
34:41 to support the other activities that’s
34:44 where 1 plus 1 equals more than two now
34:46 I’m also happy to share with you like we
34:48 haven’t defied gravity and I can tell
34:50 you where I misfired was related to some
34:52 of these same points right the deals
34:54 that have been tough where I looked at
34:56 someone who could really sell and I knew
34:59 we could set you know we could do the
35:01 finance we could provide them you know
35:04 with capital and so I was excited when
35:07 we put these together but I didn’t
35:09 understand that like hey this business
35:11 the the procurement and operations
35:13 function was super important and the
35:15 folks that I dealt with had had success
35:17 as salespeople but we underestimated
35:21 that part of the business and so to your
35:23 point you know I’ve got to really TR
35:26 truly look at it what does it take to
35:27 both win and deliver work successfully
35:30 and I need a CEO who can own that piece
35:32 of the business and in my experience
35:35 they got to want to do that right they
35:37 can’t be wanting to go do something else
35:39 I want people who truly are passionate
35:41 about it they like it they like leading
35:43 and managing people if they are rushing
35:44 to get to the salesman chairman seat
35:47 it’s it’s generally not the right
35:49 partnership I want someone who you know
35:52 that’s one of the reasons why we’ve been
35:53 so successful taking people who haven’t
35:55 had the CEO title yet right they ran a
35:58 region they ran a p&l they were you know
36:02 Ops you know they actually know how to
36:05 win and do the bid we don’t have any
36:06 question about what to do day one but
36:08 they you know them having the keys funny
36:11 it’s a lot like the the diagram I drew
36:12 for casy two years ago right which is
36:15 you know I call it the backbone right
36:16 sales marketing hrit accounting IL legal
36:18 those are things that we can provide and
36:20 we looked at it from existing businesses
36:22 but to your point that’s also the
36:24 jetpack that you can put on someone’s
36:25 back that knows the rest of the
36:27 day-to-day of that business lacks those
36:29 things to kind of help enable those
36:30 things so they’re not trying to figure
36:31 out how do I set up a payroll system
36:33 what is the best you know all of the
36:35 minutia that is important for a business
36:37 but not core to that business and so
36:40 yeah right so I it’s I agree I think
36:44 sales has been tough but then part of
36:46 our model has been it either needs to
36:48 have been around 30 or 40 years right so
36:50 you have that database that customer
36:51 it’s kind of business pro it’s proved
36:53 that it matters to the market right and
36:56 what I have found I don’t know about you
36:57 guys
36:59 many of these businesses haven’t made
37:02 five outbound sales calls a month in 20
37:05 years right right that you know they’re
37:08 meaningful institutions but they’re they
37:10 are not hungry they’re not Scrappy
37:12 they’re not they’re not built to do that
37:14 frankly if they were they’d be bigger
37:16 businesses and we wouldn’t see them you
37:17 wouldn’t be buying them and so the sales
37:20 yeah exactly the the sales piece is is a
37:23 is a interesting piece of that I love we
37:25 we’ll we’ll talk offline I’d love to
37:27 kind of hear so sort of how you think
37:28 about injecting that I’ll tell you
37:30 this we we’ve been we’ve been going down
37:33 a road because we we want to get into
37:34 the wastewater treatment industry here
37:36 in Texas right so last year we went
37:38 through a nine-month process seller I
37:41 think I got a little too exotic on the
37:42 deal structure and uh but also his his
37:45 accounts receivable just dried up so it
37:47 did not work out I I know it will come
37:49 back going back to your two-year process
37:52 we buil we end a good relationship all
37:54 the above but at the same time a very
37:56 little deal with Big Brand but but a
37:59 very little company popped up and we
38:01 were like this would be a great bolt-on
38:02 so we were starting that conversation at
38:04 the same time now that big one’s gone
38:06 the little one’s there and we’re like y
38:09 oh my God but I just we got to do it
38:13 it’s got It’s it’s it will make the
38:15 bigger one better and I know that one’s
38:16 gonna pop up but see that’s the cool
38:18 part about being an entrepreneur right
38:20 thinking about us as in the acquisition
38:22 space and so I’m glad you talked about
38:23 your growth strategy too because you
38:25 know if you’re just the guy that buys
38:27 the historic longlasting old business
38:30 that’s I’m not saying there’s anything
38:31 wrong with that you know we we have done
38:33 that but then there’s also this
38:35 opportunity for us to go man there’s
38:37 there’s there’s a there’s just
38:38 opportunity in these markets you know
38:41 and um sometimes you just got to take
38:43 that entrepreneurial risk and go at it
38:46 uh uh 100 100% awesome 100% perfect well
38:49 no Brian I mean lots of information in
38:51 this one and one last thing before we
38:53 move on to our rocket round for the deal
38:56 with the uh the safe boxes right that
38:58 mentioned can you give people just
38:59 really quickly what were the terms of
39:01 the loan right how much leverage how
39:02 much Equity how much seller carry you
39:04 know and what was the rate just for the
39:06 whole package on that sure I I want to
39:09 you know I want to be respectful to the
39:10 family we sold that we bought from so
39:13 I’m happy to give kind of higher level
39:14 but not give the details um so you know
39:18 we had it was an approximately three
39:20 times cash flow loan our rate relative
39:24 to sort of where Market was uh we we
39:26 felt like again at that time you know I
39:28 think we were you know sver plus you
39:31 know 500 and change maybe maybe a little
39:33 bit higher but for us we did sign up for
39:36 some amortization there right and my
39:39 view on that was I truly plan to own
39:41 this business this is not built to be a
39:43 flip and so as painful as it is in using
39:45 up the cash to deliv frankly like being
39:48 in this position on a project based
39:50 business where less debt is really a
39:52 good thing one of the reasons these
39:53 folks were around for us to buy 40 years
39:56 after you know Grandpa started it was
39:59 because you know they had owned it debt
40:01 free and so we will eventually go there
40:04 and so we a cash flow alone I I’m I’m
40:07 happy anyone who listens to this and
40:09 wants to know more you send me an email
40:11 we’ll talk through that that detail so I
40:13 I’ll get you the rate right but you know
40:15 that that’s sort of how you know what we
40:17 saw there yep got it and maybe let me
40:19 ask you a question what percentage of
40:20 the equity did you end up having to
40:21 bring at the finish line so well this
40:23 was an interesting conversation so
40:25 because of our model and some of the
40:27 success I wrote 100% of the check what I
40:29 would tell you is that we felt good
40:31 about how we structured the deal and so
40:34 like relative to many deals I think our
40:36 percent again and just out of privacy
40:38 and respect for the folks we talk about
40:39 I won’t do specifics but if you get it
40:42 right and you really do the work you’d
40:44 be surprised that like people will
40:46 support deals that have relatively you
40:49 know the the debt Equity Mex does not
40:51 always need to be 50/50 we were
40:53 significantly below that and so I guess
40:55 just really quick before you get to rock
40:57 around two things I would say have
40:59 really made a big difference being
41:01 willing to spend a little bit of money
41:03 on legal and accounting will
41:05 differentiate your listeners
41:07 significantly from like 90% of the folks
41:11 in the deals they’re seeing right
41:12 because 90% they’ve either talked to
41:14 somebody one off or they got a book but
41:17 just being able to put a third-party
41:19 stamp on hey these folks have looked at
41:22 it this is our review because as much as
41:24 people tell you they want to do
41:26 proprietary deals whether it’s your
41:28 Equity investors or your your lenders
41:30 nobody thinks like that I’ve never seen
41:33 it they all prefer a beautiful package a
41:36 beautiful model a beautiful third party
41:38 stamp and so being willing to spend a
41:39 little bit of money on that you’d be
41:41 surprised how much comfort these lenders
41:43 can get saying hey you know what I need
41:45 to get some money out the door I’m
41:47 willing to do this deal even if the
41:48 equity stack isn’t as deep as possible
41:51 so there you it’s all I got beat up when
41:54 I pitched that one private credit guy he
41:56 said man you didn’t put you didn’t put
41:58 the presentation together and I was like
41:60 well I was just seeing if you’re
42:01 interested he was like I’m always
42:03 interested put the package
42:05 together that’s it
42:08 exactly awesome let’s jump into our
42:10 rocket round this is where we take our
42:12 guest and ask them a few questions so
42:14 all right let jump into it first
42:16 question what do you like to do in your
42:17 free time um so free time is is tough
42:21 I’ve got uh six-year-old twins um my
42:25 oldest is 24
42:28 um but you know when I can break out of
42:31 of the family time moments and and you
42:33 what we’re doing with our business um
42:35 you’ll find me on the golf course one
42:36 day I’m gonna go learn golf because I’m
42:38 clearly in the wrong business if I don’t
42:39 so all my golf dollars go to my daughter
42:41 she’s our she’s our
42:43 golfer okay all right next question so
42:46 what’s your most memorable moment in
42:47 your business
42:48 Journey um I I think for sure the the
42:52 the decision to spin out just and put my
42:55 name on the door and do you know really
42:59 kind of go into business and tell folks
43:01 that uh that I’m doing this is was 100%
43:05 um because you know until you do it it’s
43:08 talk you can listen to podcast you go to
43:09 conferences but actually kind of
43:11 decision and kind of takes a lot of
43:12 courage to tell you know your spouse and
43:14 your friends and your family especially
43:16 you know I had a very strong traditional
43:18 background right that you know they’re
43:20 like hey why aren’t you just you know
43:21 going and working for Blackstone or some
43:23 of these guys that we’ heard but going
43:24 to do my own thing um you know that what
43:27 that period was like that’s that’s the
43:30 to me that’s in hindsight the fun part
43:32 but was as scary and most memorable as
43:34 it could be no you had the Wall Street
43:35 names and it’s like why would you leave
43:37 that I had the same thing I left
43:38 Microsoft why would you leave that and
43:39 it’s like hey there’s always better
43:40 things out there so right great and then
43:43 last question favorite tool or
43:45 resource so um a two-part answer so
43:50 first I would say the phone if you give
43:52 me the phone we we will make it work I
43:54 you put me a phone anywhere in the world
43:56 and you know we’re going to create some
43:58 value I would say that is not changing
44:01 and I think that’s going to be for a
44:02 while I um look I’m seeing these AI
44:05 tools they have changed my workflow
44:08 literally over the past nine months you
44:11 know I won’t send an email that hasn’t
44:13 been through chat GPT right when I kind
44:16 of talk to my team and I say before you
44:18 ask me a question has this question been
44:21 put in Google YouTube and chat GPT right
44:25 because the answers are probably there
44:27 um and so I’m seeing those you know the
44:29 AI kind of tools begin to change sort of
44:33 my workflow the workflows of the
44:34 companies we invest in and so that’s
44:37 it’s kind of creeping up the list but
44:39 you know right now I feel like if you
44:40 give me a phone and you know you could
44:42 drop me in a country I barely speak the
44:44 language and you know give me five years
44:46 and a phone you know I think we’ll do
44:48 okay hey the phone is my friend too I
44:51 love it I will pick that thing up and
44:52 call anyone I love
44:54 it that is fantastic Brian listen it has
44:57 been an absolute pleasure um I would
45:00 love to let our listeners know we’re
45:02 going to get you out to our conference
45:03 in May 3rd be a part of that uh we’re
45:05 going to definitely be bringing this
45:06 independent sponsor conversation to what
45:08 we’re doing uh because it’s a big thing
45:11 I talk to all types of people that I
45:13 talk to that have never bought a
45:14 business always say they’re gonna buy
45:16 two or three so I love the vision right
45:19 so how do I get
45:20 there love love it so look I’m looking
45:23 forward to being there in May and
45:24 looking forward to to to connecting with
45:26 folks yep awesome and Brian how can the
45:28 listeners get a hold of you sure so my
45:30 emails on my website so if you go to uh
45:34 uh Rand R and- co.com you go on there
45:37 you’ll see both about our business uh
45:39 you’ll see some of my team and you reach
45:41 out I’m happy to chat with them awesome
45:43 Brian absolute pleasure thank you very
45:45 much thanks Brian thanks everybody Take
45:47 Care thank you for listening to the m&a
45:49 Launchpad podcast if you’ve enjoyed
45:51 today’s podcast and would like to
45:52 support us please leave us a rating and
45:54 a review after you listen I’m Casey muu
45:56 and I look forward to talking with you
45:57 next week
