In this episode of the M&A Launchpad Podcast, hosts Feras Moussa and Casey Minshew talk with Michael Heath—a three-time entrepreneur who has acquired and operated a commercial garage door company, a pool retail business, and a pool construction company. Michael shares the gritty, behind-the-scenes realities of business ownership that you won’t find in the guru playbooks.
From working at a roofing supply manufacturer to bootstrapping his first acquisition during COVID, Michael discusses how he navigated everything from underpriced jobs and partner dynamics to team turnover and personal burnout. He explains how each acquisition taught him critical lessons that shaped the next, and how being “all in” is often the only way forward.
Whether you’re considering your first acquisition or navigating operational chaos, Michael’s story will resonate.
In this episode, we discuss:
- How Michael went from commuter school and corporate job to buying three companies
- The lessons from each business that made the next one stronger
- Why margins matter more than revenue
- How a terrible bookkeeper nearly sunk his first business
- What really happens when sellers stay on after the sale
- The power of employee one-on-ones and why he regrets not doing them sooner
- The surprising upside of chaos—and how Michael re-centered himself
- How he’s structured investor deals, including 49/51 equity splits
- When it’s worth walking away from a deal—even after doing the work
Contact Michael Heath:
Connect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-heath-biz/
Additional Resources:
Sponsored by O’Connell Advisory Group – Work with a trusted Quality of Earnings and Financial Diligence partner who focuses solely on business acquisitions.
Visit: https://www.oconnelladvisorygroup.com
Join our Community at the M&A Launchpad Conference – Premier event for entrepreneurs, investors, and dealmakers in the lower-middle market.
https://www.malaunchpad.com
M&A Launchpad Hosts Contact – Casey Minshew & Feras Moussa
Email: info@equitylaunchpad.com
Looking to buy or sell a business? Connect with the team at Equity Launchpad for expert guidance and hands-on support throughout your transaction.
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Transcript
00:00 All right, on today’s episode, we
00:02 interviewed Michael Heath where we
00:03 talked about what it looks like to go to
00:05 commuter school and then ultimately go
00:07 and buy not one, not two, but three
00:09 different businesses and some of the
00:11 challenges of those businesses, right?
00:12 He first went off and bought a garage
00:14 door company, right, about installing
00:16 garage commercial garage doors. Then he
00:18 went off and bought a pool supply
00:19 company and a pool uh construction
00:22 company, right? And really learning
00:24 different mistakes made along the way
00:25 from one business to help support and
00:27 grow the next one, right? outside of
00:29 just how do you buy the business, but
00:30 really how do you operate the business?
00:31 Some of the things to consider. So
00:33 Casey, what were some of your takeaways?
00:34 You know, one of the things that Michael
00:36 talked about was, hey, these are smaller
00:37 companies and I don’t know how it’s like
00:39 in a bigger company and maybe not have
00:40 these issues. And I’m like, well, you
00:42 know, they’re all the same issues. The
00:44 thing about buying a company, and a lot
00:46 of the gurus out there want to make you
00:48 think that there’s no issues, and
00:49 there’s no challenges, but there’s a
00:51 tremendous amount of challenges, and
00:52 they happen all the time, and uh it’s
00:55 about that problem solving. And I think
00:56 what Michael really gets into is he’s
00:59 dealt with a lot of stuff back to back
01:01 to back and it’s just preparing him. And
01:02 he says it right at the beginning of
01:04 this of this co this this podcast. He
01:06 said, “Hey, I’m just being prepared for
01:08 the next big opportunity.” And and
01:09 that’s the kind of attitude you have to
01:11 have as it’s coming at you and it’s
01:13 coming at you pretty hard. Yeah. I know
01:15 being an entrepreneur is not easy,
01:16 right? There’s a lot of drama and we
01:17 kind of touched on it towards the end
01:19 where it’s kind of lonely at the top,
01:20 right? not having people to be able to
01:22 go vent to and and understand what
01:25 problems you’re facing and why it’s so
01:27 stressful and how do you solve it and so
01:29 we still love it. Yeah. So, you know,
01:30 it’s we’re addicted to it. But anyways,
01:32 so that that’s kind of the really this
01:34 episode touches on a lot of different
01:35 topics. So, go ahead and listen in.
01:40 Welcome to the M&A Launchpad podcast
01:42 with your host Casey and Ferris with
01:43 Equity Launchpad. On this podcast, you
01:45 will gain insights on acquiring,
01:46 investing in, and selling profitable
01:48 businesses in the lower to middle
01:49 market. Whether you’re a business owner,
01:51 investor, or spying entrepreneur, at
01:52 Equity and Launchpad, we will provide
01:54 you with the knowledge, guidance, and
01:55 capital to navigate the world of mergers
01:57 and
01:58 acquisitions. All right, guys, just take
02:00 one second here real quick. When you’re
02:02 buying a business, ensuring the
02:03 financial health of the company is
02:04 critical, and that’s where a quality of
02:06 earnings partner comes in. Quality of
02:08 earnings gives you confidence in the
02:09 financials of the company that you’re
02:10 purchasing. It aims to protect your
02:12 investment and ensure that you’re
02:13 stepping into a profitable business on
02:15 day one. Patrick of Okonnell Advisory
02:17 Group is your dynamic quality of
02:19 earnings partner. He’s here to help you
02:20 buy the right business on your timeline.
02:22 Patrick’s entire practice is focused on
02:24 business acquisitions. Your niche is his
02:26 niche. And over the past decade,
02:28 Patrick’s helped more than 200 buyers
02:30 like yourself successfully purchase and
02:32 operate enduring profitable businesses.
02:34 In fact, Patrick’s helped some listeners
02:36 of this show. So, if you’re buying,
02:38 looking for help with the quality of
02:39 earnings, financial due diligence,
02:41 network capital, and more, head to
02:43 okconelladvisor.com or just click the
02:45 link in the show notes. Hey, Michael,
02:47 welcome to the show. Hey, I appreciate
02:48 you guys having me on. All right, for
02:50 those listeners, so Michael is a
02:52 three-time entrepreneur, multiple
02:54 businesses, and so we’re going to kind
02:55 of dive in and start to really learn a
02:57 little bit more about some of his
02:58 experience and what he’s done. So,
02:59 Michael, you want to ahead and maybe
03:01 give a little bit of overview for for
03:02 the audience? Yeah. Uh, born and raised
03:04 in St. Louis, Missouri. uh from a little
03:06 town probably about 30 minutes south of
03:08 here. Um I ended up going to University
03:11 of Missouri St. Louis uh which is kind
03:13 of um commuter school just a lot of
03:15 people are working and going to school
03:17 at the same time. Uh after school went
03:20 down to Bogota Colombia for about 3
03:21 years learned Spanish. Uh started my
03:24 little entrepreneurial journey. Uh I was
03:27 importing uh refurbished iPhones at the
03:30 time and jailbreaking them and selling
03:32 them to distributors down there. and
03:34 then uh got into the emerald business
03:36 for a little bit. Um just realized that
03:39 it wasn’t really going to take off and
03:41 didn’t see the potential that I had
03:42 myself down there. So came back. The
03:44 emerald business worked for for Elon. So
03:47 yeah. Well, I mean it’s it’s a fun
03:49 business, you know, it’s it’s a cash
03:50 heavy business. So seeing seeing people
03:53 walk around with bags of money and uh
03:56 just being in those rooms that you
03:58 normally wouldn’t be a part of, but I
03:60 was the crazy gringo that wanted to to
04:02 sit in and listen. So it uh it was just
04:05 a cool experience. But but yeah, came
04:07 back um really started from scratch. It
04:10 was a little depressing seeing all my
04:11 friends, you know, making good money and
04:12 already started their careers and I was
04:14 starting from the bottom. Got into
04:16 sales. I did insurance for a little bit.
04:19 Wasn’t a good fit for me. Got in the
04:20 mortgage business. Did pretty well. I
04:22 stayed there for probably about 5 years
04:24 and then got into I was doing 203k
04:27 loans, which are renovation loans. So I
04:30 used that for myself. started, you know,
04:32 bought a duplex, started growing my real
04:34 estate portfolio a little bit, and then
04:36 started flipping. Um, moved over. I’ve
04:39 always wanted to know what the, uh,
04:41 corporate life was like. Just was
04:43 curious if I wanted to climb the ladder.
04:45 I got into a roofing manufacturer
04:47 company, Malarkey Roofing Products.
04:49 Stayed there for about 5 years. Um, it
04:52 was good, gave me structure and, um, I
04:55 had the opportunity. We bought Stateline
04:57 actually in 2020 and that was what um I
05:01 was still with the malarkey for two
05:03 years after we did that. So I was
05:05 working you know full-time at Malarkey,
05:07 part-time at Stateline putting the
05:09 backend operations in place.
05:12 So let’s pause there really quick. So
05:14 you were at a roofing company. What led
05:17 you to go buy this other business,
05:19 right? Were you actively the evenings
05:21 underwriting different opportunities,
05:23 making offers, or did you just kind of
05:24 stumble across it? How’d you find it?
05:26 No, I have a really good friend of mine
05:28 that he owns Premier Business Brokers
05:30 and I told him he was always excited
05:32 talking about all these deals that were
05:34 coming up and he was kind of given the
05:36 description of like who these people
05:37 were typically executives, retired, they
05:40 were bored, they wanted to put their
05:41 skills to use. So, they were buying
05:43 companies and you know he was telling me
05:45 how much you had to invest. You could go
05:47 the SBA route, you could go
05:48 conventional. Um, you know, some of
05:51 these deals were getting done with 5 10%
05:53 down. you know, the seller was carrying
05:55 the rest of the note. And uh it just
05:57 seemed like something that I could do.
05:59 You know, I’ve got a sales background. I
06:01 could find a business that’s dusty and,
06:03 you know, put some uh backend operations
06:05 in place and clean it up, put some
06:06 technology in. And it’s like, why would
06:08 I not do this? So, I just asked him,
06:10 would you please keep me in mind if
06:12 something came up? And a lot of the
06:15 stuff that he was sending me were like
06:17 um commercial cleaning companies, you
06:19 know, just some real low-level skill
06:21 type stuff. Um, I actually went under
06:24 contract with one and uh, turned out it
06:28 was just there’s a lot of hands-on. They
06:30 didn’t have the operations in place. I
06:31 didn’t really want to take a business
06:33 that didn’t have management in place.
06:36 So, um, I passed on it eventually, but I
06:39 was running his company for almost a
06:40 month and uh, decided not to do it
06:42 because I was almost a janitor uh, at
06:45 some point. You know, one of the guys
06:46 didn’t show up, so we had to clean. I
06:49 wasn’t getting paid for it. But, you
06:50 know, at the same time, it was a good,
06:52 you know, good experience to kind of get
06:54 my feet wet and see what this is really
06:55 about, see what I’m getting into. Um,
06:58 but then, you know, a year went by, he
07:00 called me and he said, “Hey, I got this
07:02 garage door company. It’s a one
07:03 multiple. They did 2.5 in revenue. He’s
07:06 making 250 a year. That’s the SDE. The
07:09 owner and the wife aren’t taking a
07:10 salary at all. Um, but he’s like, you
07:13 know, this is only going to be 15% down
07:15 and the seller’s willing to carry a 5%
07:17 note. So, you know, would you be
07:19 interested in it? And I had a friend
07:22 call me two days before that saying that
07:25 he worked for a competitor, Zoom Walt,
07:27 uh, Garage Doors here in St. Louis. He
07:29 wasn’t getting paid for what he was
07:30 doing. He was running operations, had
07:33 three years in the business, and, uh, it
07:35 just seemed like the stars aligned, and
07:37 this was an opportunity that we needed
07:39 to jump on. So me and a couple other
07:41 partners including the operator um that
07:45 wrote a contract and it took probably
07:47 about eight months to close because it
07:48 was in the middle of COVID. We were a
07:51 little uncertain on what was going to
07:52 happen. So uh we delayed the closing a
07:55 little bit just to kind of see what the
07:56 numbers were looking like and they were
07:58 consistent. Uh so we pulled the trigger
08:00 and closed in November 2020.
08:04 Nice. Crazy times. Yeah. Yeah. I was
08:08 certain garage doors whether it’s co or
08:10 not I think people are like looking at
08:13 the garage doors going I need to fix
08:14 that. Well and we’re we’re not
08:16 residential we’re commercial so we do
08:18 new construction and so with co you know
08:21 everybody was staying at home deliveries
08:23 were picking up with FedEx Amazon. So
08:26 all these Amazon fulfillment centers
08:28 were getting um getting built and um so
08:32 you know they need garage doors. So, um,
08:35 we told the owner to book as much
08:37 business as he possibly could and he
08:40 did. And I think the first year out we
08:42 did about 7.5 7.4 million. Uh, but he
08:46 didn’t bid it correctly. He didn’t take
08:49 into account we had a back-end team now.
08:51 So, we did 7.5 and probably made 100
08:54 grand. So, it was pretty depressing
08:56 after an extremely busy year, you know,
08:58 busier than he’s ever been uh in the
09:00 history of the company and making that
09:02 little money. Um, but it just really
09:04 came down to he wasn’t bidding correctly
09:06 and he never thought that he could get,
09:09 you know, 20 25% margins or gross profit
09:12 margin. So, uh, it took some time. That
09:15 brings us, it’s a great point. It’s a
09:16 good stopping point because I think
09:17 what, you know, people the listeners and
09:19 all that good stuff. You hear this from
09:23 the books and people talking about it,
09:25 but the first thing you want to do when
09:26 you get into a business is raise prices.
09:29 Yep. Right. And you know, it’s one of
09:31 the hardest things to do is to then
09:32 figure out, well, hold on, you know,
09:34 they’re not using an ERP. So, I gotta
09:37 first get my ERP in system so I can then
09:39 make sure I’m pricing right. But it’s
09:40 absolutely amazing. We in our company
09:43 that we acquired in 23, you know, we
09:45 didn’t get the ERP in until about 15
09:48 months all said and done after we got
09:50 in. And we realized like we were losing
09:53 money on stuff because in 2022 prices
09:57 went through the roof, right? All of a
09:58 sudden, inflation hit. We weren’t
10:00 raising prices of our services. Or
10:02 really, we thought we were, but we the
10:04 way we priced was very tech, very uh
10:07 piece of paper, back of the napkin, and
10:08 then you put it into a system, and you
10:10 get the pricing right, you’re like, “Oh
10:11 my god, like we were just leaving money
10:13 on the table.” Yeah. So, is that kind of
10:15 one of the things you guys experienced
10:17 when you got in there? Once you had a
10:18 year like that, you’re sitting there
10:20 going, “Man, we’ve got to price better.
10:22 We have to have a better estimating
10:24 process.” Yeah, it was definitely the
10:26 case. and we weren’t doing job cost
10:28 accounting. So, we really had no clue
10:30 what these jobs were going to profit at
10:31 the end of the day. So, uh bringing in a
10:35 a a bookkeeper that actually had
10:37 experience because we were using the
10:39 husband’s wife for the longest time and
10:41 she was not qualified to do that. Um so,
10:44 we brought in the CPA that was going
10:47 into retirement. She wanted something
10:49 part-time and it just it was a perfect
10:51 fit because she worked at the garage
10:53 door company that our operator worked
10:54 at. So, Um that was the biggest thing
10:57 that we could have done. Um because we
10:59 really understood our numbers and knew
11:01 where we had to be and we could say no
11:04 and turn down jobs because just because
11:06 it was a million-doll project doesn’t we
11:09 mean we’re going to make any money on
11:10 it. And if it’s like we’re going to make
11:12 2% on this, well is this worth our time
11:14 when we can take something that we’re
11:15 going to make 10 on? Yeah. So question
11:17 though. So you said you turned down some
11:19 of the other companies because they
11:20 didn’t have a system in place, right?
11:21 Like that cleaning company. What
11:23 attracted you to this one, right? and
11:24 $2.5 million of revenue. You know, how
11:27 big was the company employees-wise? And
11:30 were were there systems in place or was
11:32 it more so, hey, I just happen to have a
11:34 good friend that’s a good fit for this
11:36 that can help me build that system? Uh,
11:38 it just seemed like the risk was really
11:41 low for us. Uh, and again, this is me
11:43 and two other partners and the operator
11:45 now has equity, but uh, the risk seemed
11:48 very low. It was more risk on the
11:50 operator because he was leaving a job,
11:51 but at the end of the day, he was ready
11:53 to leave. Um, so you know, at the worst
11:56 case scenario, the three of us, the four
11:58 of us were going to lose
11:59 250,000. So I wasn’t really all that
12:02 concerned. It sucks if it didn’t pan
12:04 out, but the fact that he was making
12:06 that that money year-over-year, uh, it
12:08 just seemed like the the risk was really
12:10 low. And,
12:13 um, you know, with the other companies,
12:16 uh, just I I didn’t have an operator,
12:19 which meant I was going to have to go in
12:20 and get my hands dirty. And it wasn’t,
12:22 you know, with a cleaning company, it
12:23 wasn’t something that I felt good about.
12:26 Um, you know, it’s just seems like, you
12:28 know, I’m I’m a salesperson. I’m dealing
12:30 with business owners and then now I’m
12:32 going to go down and be a janitor. And
12:35 it just didn’t sound it was just
12:37 depressing because I worked, like I
12:38 said, I worked there for a month and I
12:41 just didn’t feel good about myself. you
12:43 know, I couldn’t develop that business
12:45 ownership mentality that, you know, you
12:46 hire employees and then you’re managing
12:48 all these people and they were very low
12:51 skill employees. So, it was just it was
12:53 it was difficult. But with the garage
12:54 doors, um, it was a good fit with the
12:57 owner, you know, when we met him, highly
12:60 educated person, uh, took a lot of pride
13:02 in his work, took a lot of pride in his
13:04 business, and, you know, with the
13:06 operator that we had in place, I was
13:08 confident with him. I knew him from
13:10 since like kindergarten. uh I trusted
13:12 him. So, you know, it was more me
13:15 putting faith in him and knowing what
13:17 the business had done in the past year
13:18 over year and that was gave me the
13:21 confidence to, you know, take the uh
13:23 take the risk and uh take the leap. Got
13:26 it. And so maybe so you kind of
13:29 mentioned the the seller a few times.
13:31 How involved was he? How did he you know
13:34 was he what was the deal you guys had
13:36 right outside of the actual purchase?
13:37 Did he had to stay around for six
13:38 months? It sound like you was involved
13:40 pretty actively I guess at the
13:42 beginning. I mean what did that look
13:43 like? He told us from day one with our
13:45 business we know it’s about how involved
13:47 should a seller be? Do you want to how
13:49 long do you keep them around and is that
13:51 a net benefit or a net kind of negative
13:53 for a business?
13:55 Both. Um yeah it was we definitely had
13:58 our challenges. Uh I think it was 100%
14:01 necessary to have him involved and the
14:03 deal with us was that he was going to
14:05 work with us indefinitely. Um he and you
14:09 know his attitude he was in his 70s. He
14:11 said look like I enjoy doing what I do
14:14 and I really don’t want to leave but I
14:16 just can’t continue to work the hours
14:18 that I’m working and I’m tired of the
14:19 travel. He’s like but I am here as long
14:22 as you need me. And he’s still working
14:25 for us surprisingly. Um not because we
14:28 need him but because he’s resourceful
14:30 and he’s just he’s got 30 plus years of
14:33 experience in the business. So,
14:36 um, that did cause some challenges
14:39 though because we were dependent upon
14:42 him. My operator had the training over
14:44 at Zoomwalt, but he did not have the
14:46 install training. He could run the team,
14:48 you know, deal with all of that, but he
14:50 did not have the install training for uh
14:52 the commercial garage doors. And with
14:55 the team that we had, they needed a
14:56 leader. And uh, so the operator had to
14:60 learn from him. and it took a solid two
15:02 years for him to be comfortable enough
15:03 to take on any project. Um, but yeah, it
15:07 was uh with the owner. It was there was
15:09 more of a challenge with his with his
15:11 wife than anything because she was she
15:14 was working as our bookkeeper and we
15:16 knew within the first actually the first
15:18 day that I met her, she had never sent
15:20 an email before in her life and she was
15:22 trying to snail mail me everything. And
15:26 um I I kind of had a panic attack after
15:29 she told me all of this because you know
15:31 we were starting from scratch the boat
15:32 we’d already been in it. you know, we we
15:35 had to do a we had to set up Quickbooks.
15:37 She didn’t know how to do that. Uh it
15:39 was just a it was a huge mess at which
15:41 again we didn’t know what we were
15:43 making. Um she wasn’t dealing with AP
15:46 AR. She said that was my job. Um so
15:50 yeah, we wanted to let her go and we
15:52 told uh the previous owner that we
15:55 wanted to make this move. He talked to
15:57 her about it and she said, “If I leave,
15:59 then you’re leaving and you’re not going
16:00 to work for that company.” She it was a
16:03 huge blow to her ego. She thought she
16:05 was good at what she did. She just was
16:07 not up to date with technology and she
16:08 had no care in the world to do it. I was
16:11 spending too much time. I I’d never
16:13 operated QuickBooks before and I was
16:14 learning and trying to teach her. Um so
16:17 she kind of held us hostage for about a
16:19 year and a half and then finally we just
16:21 got so fed up with it that we just said,
16:24 you know what, if we got to lose the op
16:26 we got to lose the previous owner then
16:27 it is what it is. We’ll figure it out.
16:30 So yeah, it was both good and bad. And I
16:32 would quick question on that. Did you
16:34 happen to include her in the sales
16:36 process when you all bought the business
16:38 or was it just you and the husband? Just
16:40 uh us and the husband. So in in the
16:43 future, do you feel like you know it you
16:45 you might add that? Is that one of your
16:46 now feathers in your hat? Like you need
16:48 to include all all decision makers or do
16:51 you feel like that was something you
16:53 probably could have won or over or do
16:54 you think it was just a hurdle you were
16:55 going to have to jump anyways? I would
16:56 say with the key employ I would say on a
16:59 bigger business the key employees would
17:00 be really important to meet with and see
17:02 if there’s a you know feel them out see
17:04 what they want see if it’s a personality
17:06 fit. Um in a smaller business I think
17:08 that’s it’s difficult to do. Um because
17:12 I don’t think that the owners really
17:13 want you to talk to them because if that
17:14 person leaves then you know their
17:16 business is going to fall. It’s it’s
17:18 going to sink. Yeah. But technically the
17:20 wife owned the company too, right? She
17:22 did. Uh but he just, you know, said that
17:25 she was the bookkeeper. We didn’t
17:26 realize that. They always do. Yeah.
17:28 Yeah. It was uh I I didn’t Yeah, it was
17:32 uh it was a difficult time for sure. But
17:34 yes, I I would push on having those
17:36 conversations. Um and the two companies
17:39 that we bought after that, uh we didn’t
17:41 have those conversations with key
17:43 employees. Again, I wish we would have
17:45 done it because we would have discovered
17:47 a handful of things that I don’t know if
17:49 that would have deterred us from buying
17:50 the business, but it would have
17:51 definitely been helpful information.
17:52 Yeah, let’s this is a good actually
17:54 really quick though actually just want
17:55 to ask one question before we move on to
17:57 the next business. So you bought the
17:59 business it went from two and a half
18:00 million the next year did 7 million you
18:02 didn’t make any money from it. Were you
18:04 able to sustain that revenue growth but
18:07 start to actually grow your margins to
18:09 where you’re like hey this has been
18:10 awesome now right
18:12 growing 3x I mean that’s a 3x growth
18:14 that’s that’s awesome but you got to
18:16 make some money in it. So were you able
18:17 to address that or is the revenue still
18:19 high and you guys are still kind of
18:20 working through the the profitability
18:21 side? So 21 and 22 was the same story.
18:24 Uh the challenge with this business is
18:26 that we bid the project, we find out
18:29 whether we get it or not within months.
18:32 Um and then the project starts. That
18:34 could be next month, that could be 6
18:36 months. And then once we uh complete the
18:40 project, then it takes another probably
18:42 3 to 6 months to receive our retention.
18:44 they hold back 10% every time they they
18:47 do a um uh every time they pay us out
18:51 for material or labor. So, um we didn’t
18:55 really start seeing those results until
18:56 2023. Um which was a huge year for us
18:59 cuz we did 9.5 in 23. Uh we netted
19:03 probably about 950. So, uh I think it
19:06 was a little bit over. Um, but yeah, we
19:08 didn’t really see the results of what we
19:11 put in place in 22 until 2023 and then
19:15 the years forward. Yeah, there’s a
19:16 phrase, that works, you know. Yeah,
19:18 there’s a phrase that I like, which is
19:20 pain points you’re dealing with today
19:21 are usually decisions you made from me
19:22 three, four, five years ago. So, you
19:25 also get the opposite. The good things
19:26 you’re dealing with today are usually
19:27 from decisions you put in place three,
19:29 four, five years ago. And that’s the
19:30 beautiful thing, you know, if if
19:31 somebody comes into buying a company and
19:33 they have a short-term vision, right?
19:35 You know, I think, you know, when you
19:36 think about the the people that come in,
19:38 hey, I’m going to buy this, fix it up,
19:39 and I’m going to flip it, right? I think
19:41 when you come into these businesses with
19:43 that mentality, because we all do. We
19:45 have all suffered from the idea that I’m
19:46 going to buy it, getting a great deal,
19:48 and I’m going to fix it. And then you’re
19:49 five years into the thing, and you’re
19:51 like, hey, now it’s a 10-year vision.
19:53 Um, I think my advice to anybody
19:55 listening to this podcast is you’ve got
19:57 to have a 10ear vision on these
19:58 companies because it just takes a lot of
20:00 time to to get the ground running. Even
20:03 though it’s a company that might have
20:05 been around for 10 years or 15 years,
20:07 it’s just going to take more time than
20:09 you think. Oh, yeah. And I was cocky
20:12 going into it, you know, I thought that,
20:14 you know, I’m this young gun. I’m going
20:16 to go get after it. I’m going to do all
20:17 these things and, you know, and then
20:20 just dealing with the problems. You
20:21 can’t, you know, and the changes that
20:23 you want to make in the company, you
20:24 also have to read the room because
20:27 sometimes these changes you want to put
20:29 in place, most employees do not like
20:31 change. And you can only change so much
20:34 in the time frame that you want to. And
20:36 I mean the example with the pool
20:38 companies, we’re a seasonal business. So
20:40 any decision that I make it, we’re not
20:43 going to make it in the peak of the
20:44 season. Uh it’s done. We’re going to
20:46 roll with it. Uh but all my decisions
20:48 and things that we want to change are
20:50 going to happen in the offseason and I
20:51 don’t get to see that until April. All
20:54 year. So that’s a good talk. So before
20:56 we jump into So that was your first
20:58 company. So then when did you acquire
20:60 the second company? Yeah. what led you
21:01 to go acquire it? So, same same deal.
21:04 Uh, speaking with Premier Business
21:06 Brokers, I worked myself out of my
21:08 position at Stateline. Um, I brought in
21:11 a person that used to run their father’s
21:13 general contracting company and she was
21:16 we brought her on as a consultant and
21:18 she was smarter, better, she was just
21:21 she was the person that needed to be in
21:23 my place. So, we hired her, gave her a
21:26 good compensation package and um she
21:29 just ran with it. she was she was the
21:31 perfect fit. Um so I realized that you
21:35 know the only thing that I can really do
21:36 is business development and I didn’t see
21:39 I didn’t really see the light because if
21:40 I was you know kind of with the
21:42 education that I have now I would have
21:44 started looking at buying up other
21:45 garage door companies in the service uh
21:48 area um or even going residential. Uh
21:52 but I just didn’t didn’t have the
21:53 education behind me. I didn’t, you know,
21:55 I was just thinking of this as like,
21:57 hey, this is an investment. You need to
21:58 go buy another company. Um, so the pool
22:01 companies came up because I was paying
22:03 attention to the listings that were
22:05 coming through Premier Business Brokers.
22:07 I kept asking the broker, you know,
22:09 what’s the deal with this business? It
22:10 looks fantastic. There’s two of them.
22:12 There’s a retail company and there’s a
22:14 service company. Why would somebody not
22:16 just buy these together? Just didn’t
22:18 make any sense, you know. Um, Pool King
22:20 was listed for, I think, 2.2 2 plus uh
22:24 1.5 in inventory and they had some real
22:26 estate attached to it. Florida Pool was
22:28 listed for 1.2
22:30 uh and I believe that included FFN. Uh
22:33 they really didn’t carry much inventory
22:35 um because they buy through
22:36 distribution. Um so it seemed like a
22:39 perfect fit. The broker said that these
22:40 businesses are under contract right now
22:42 with somebody else. They think that this
22:44 person’s getting cold feet and you
22:46 actually know them. So, I reached out to
22:49 that person that had these under
22:50 contract and uh just was like, “What
22:53 what’s the deal? What are you doing?” He
22:55 had some family issues going on. His uh
22:57 mother and father were not doing well
22:59 and he couldn’t justify moving to St.
23:02 Louis because he didn’t know what was
23:04 going to happen and uh it’s a good thing
23:06 that he didn’t um because his parents
23:08 really needed him at the time. But um so
23:11 the deal fell apart. I knew the investor
23:13 and I pitched myself to the investor and
23:17 that’s how this kind of went. And so it
23:19 was kind of a layup um in a sense
23:22 because you know they had already done
23:24 their due diligence on it and um the
23:28 investor you know was already bought in
23:30 on this. So all I really did is I kind
23:32 of stepped in as an operator. I didn’t
23:34 do the traditional you know independent
23:36 search or search fund or anything like
23:37 that. We also got the debt right in
23:39 place. I mean roughly three and a half
23:40 $4 million acquisition between the two.
23:43 Yes. And so did you do traditional SBA
23:45 and you stepped into that and took on
23:46 those PGs or was there some other
23:48 structure that was there? It was cash.
23:50 So the investor well this the decision
23:54 was made in probably February that we
23:56 were going to do this and then I had to
23:58 put in put it together a business plan
23:60 and pitch it to him and then by the time
24:02 we started getting through um the new
24:06 LOI the new APA
24:08 um you know May was coming around the
24:10 corner and if you miss May in the pool
24:13 business uh in the Midwest then you are
24:15 going to be incurring you know you’re
24:17 going to miss out on the busiest months
24:18 of the year. So we thought, yeah, so if
24:22 we if we can close on this thing and we
24:23 get at this price that we’re going to
24:25 get all the upside and not experience,
24:27 you know, four months of losses. So you
24:30 know, we just told him we’re like, “Hey,
24:31 we need to pay cash and then let’s
24:32 refinance as soon as possible.” So
24:35 that’s what we did. We refinanced the
24:37 refinance uh the cash out refi was done
24:40 in January
24:43 2024. So um it was a 80% loan to value
24:49 uh for both companies. Uh we kept them
24:51 separate uh only because uh the
24:54 investor’s attitude was if one of these
24:56 fails then it’s not going to drag the
24:58 other one down. Uh we do have intentions
25:00 on bringing the two companies together.
25:02 Uh we have not done that yet. Uh because
25:04 we are still working through some kinks
25:07 on one of the companies. Um but that is
25:10 that’s the game plan. Y’all must have
25:12 went conventional because I don’t think
25:13 SBA is going to give a a cash out
25:14 feature, does it? I not not that I’m
25:17 aware of. Yeah, I thought it might have
25:18 been conventional. So, cool. And also
25:20 with with the investor, they had some
25:22 stipulations because he would have to
25:24 take
25:25 the deal that we have. It’s a 4951
25:28 split. That’s what I was going to ask
25:29 structure. So, he’d have to take on he’d
25:31 have to be underwritten, right? And take
25:32 on a PG because he owned Yeah. with the
25:35 SBA.
25:36 Well, I think SBA only allows an
25:39 investor of somebody his net worth from
25:41 what I understand because we looked at
25:43 this and I think that he could only own
25:46 a percentage of the company. I don’t
25:48 think that he would have been able to
25:49 take majority ownership on it. Um unless
25:52 he signed on the note with you, right?
25:54 Well, he did, but uh with the
25:56 conventional loan, but and he was more
25:58 than willing to do that. That wasn’t the
25:60 problem. um we just got push back from
26:02 the SBA because of his net worth and um
26:06 the percentage of ownership that they
26:07 said that he could have. So it’s it’s
26:10 been every bank has a different kind of
26:11 ruling and all that good stuff. And but
26:13 so let me ask this though. So he he
26:15 brought all the cash. He bought the
26:17 whole thing. It sounds like he gave you
26:19 49% or 50, you know, one of you got 49,
26:22 the other one got 51,
26:24 you know, but he you know, if you turned
26:26 around and sold the business the next
26:27 day, you weren’t getting half of that.
26:29 And so what was the actual structure
26:31 that just for listeners right that do
26:33 have a wealthy investor that would fund
26:34 the thing like what’s the structure that
26:36 made that worked for you guys right so
26:37 people can kind of help have something
26:39 to ground them in terms of structuring
26:40 these that was the structure so 49 51 if
26:44 we sold the next day then I would take
26:45 49 so Oh wow so he had that much
26:47 confidence that was he the 51% he could
26:49 at least stop you from selling if it
26:51 didn’t make sense correct yeah so he has
26:53 he’s managing partners so he can do
26:55 whatever he wants that’s actually a
26:57 really sweet deal for you Michael I’m
26:58 not going to lie It was great. No, don’t
26:59 get me wrong. Like I it’s you you I hear
27:02 all these stories about independent
27:03 searchers and typically from what I
27:04 understand it’s like they take the the
27:07 operator is going to take 20%. And
27:09 that’s that’s pretty standard. And then
27:11 and that’s vested too. It’s not like you
27:12 get that you have to you have to earn
27:14 that. So and that’s what I told him. I
27:16 said you know why why are you doing
27:18 this? you know, because if this if this
27:21 business um you know, if we turn around
27:24 and sell it and I didn’t do anything or
27:26 if I run your company into the ground,
27:28 you know, and you’re giving me 49% of
27:31 it, like it just seems like this is it’s
27:34 a it’s a great deal from what I heard,
27:37 you know, from what I learned later on
27:39 because I still felt since I was
27:41 operating I should deserve more. Well,
27:43 I’ve come to learn that’s not the case
27:45 and I should be grateful for what I
27:47 have. Um, but the uh, yeah, it it’s I I
27:50 was a little um, I guess concerned on
27:53 that, but I did sign a personal
27:55 guarantee, so I’m on the hook. And his
27:58 attitude was, “Mike, you run this thing
27:59 in the ground. You’re as broke as I am.
28:01 So, um, you know, it’s on you and you
28:04 sign this. This is your financial life
28:06 on the line. So, get to work.” Nice. So,
28:10 you’ve got now, so that’s three
28:11 companies that are under your portfolio.
28:13 Um, you’re in the pool company now what,
28:15 18 months? Yes. And you mentioned, you
28:18 know, wishing to have talked to some of
28:20 the staff. So, I mean, what were some of
28:21 the mistakes once you kind of got into
28:23 the pool thing that you’re like, man, I
28:24 wish we would have done this
28:25 differently. Mistakes. It’s like what
28:27 did you learn from your from your first
28:29 acquisition? The mistakes you made there
28:31 that you applied then answer Ferris’s
28:34 question. And then what did you not that
28:36 you didn’t apply? You’re not learning
28:37 from every deal you do, then you’re kind
28:40 of stuck in insanity, right? Yeah. You
28:42 know, I think
28:44 um what did I learn from that first
28:47 deal? There’s so much that kind of came
28:49 into play. Uh I mean, not f not I
28:51 dropped my 9 to5 that I had as as soon
28:54 as we were under contract, I dropped it
28:56 because I still had in my head. I’m
28:58 like, “Wow, I can be making I can be
28:60 making money from the 9 to5 and I can be
29:01 taking salary here and I’m getting a
29:03 salary from Stateline and I could be
29:04 making this and it’s like there’s no
29:06 chance in hell that would have
29:07 happened.” So, um you know, just being
29:10 dedicated and being focused on
29:11 something. I think that was like the
29:12 biggest learning curve for me because,
29:16 you know, I uh I’ve always worked
29:18 multiple jobs, had multiple things going
29:20 on the side. Um, and just thinking that,
29:24 you know, you really need to be allin on
29:25 this. Um, I spoke with somebody
29:27 yesterday um, from the podcast that I’ve
29:30 done uh, a couple months ago and he was
29:32 trying to do the same thing and I just
29:34 told him I’m like, if you’re going to do
29:36 this, man, like if you really want this
29:37 thing to succeed, you really need to be
29:38 all in and you can do stuff on the side
29:41 because we all talk about I’m going to
29:42 buy this and I’m going to put a manager
29:44 in place and then I’m going to go buy
29:45 another one or I’m just going to go
29:47 relax, let this thing pay itself off and
29:50 I’m going to making so much money later.
29:52 And people do do that. I know people
29:53 that have. Uh but you are taking a lot
29:56 of risk and if you want to earn the
29:59 respect of the employees, you better be
30:00 there. So um and you know it doesn’t
30:03 have to be for a long period of time,
30:05 but they need to know that you are not
30:06 just some guy with a bunch of money
30:09 that’s coming in and you’re going to be
30:11 a absentee owner. So um yeah, I mean
30:15 from from Stateline, uh cash management
30:18 was the biggest thing. Um understanding
30:21 what the terms were. um understanding
30:25 what the cash cycle looks like. Uh that
30:27 was the biggest thing for us because we
30:29 got into uh several instances with state
30:32 line that we were robbing Peter to pay
30:34 Paul. We were having to put capital in
30:37 uh from the ownership group. You know,
30:39 that was the first thing that I you know
30:41 I I’m much better with the financials.
30:44 You know, I’m good at reading the
30:45 financial statements, understanding the
30:46 cash flow statements, and just really
30:48 doing projections. So, uh, that was my
30:52 biggest learning from Stateline. Yeah.
30:54 And like we kind of talked about it
30:55 before the show, right? You don’t have
30:56 to go to an Ivy League to know how to do
30:58 this. Like most businesses, the actual
31:01 operational side is a lot of the same
31:03 things, right? You need to go level up
31:05 and get comfortable with financials, how
31:07 to read a balance sheet, how to read a,
31:08 you know, financial, understanding what
31:10 AR, AP is. But, you know, the mechanics
31:12 are all the same, right? And Michael, I
31:15 mean, you kind of showed it. you were
31:16 going to just a computer school and you
31:17 went and bought three businesses and you
31:19 understand them intimately for better or
31:21 for worse, right? And over time you you
31:23 kind of pick up something here, pick up
31:25 something there, and you use that to
31:26 continue to propel you forward. Yeah.
31:27 And I’ll tell you that other experience
31:29 you got was QuickBooks, being able to go
31:31 through and learn QuickBooks. If you’ve
31:32 never gotten an accounting degree or
31:34 even understand it, just go set up a
31:36 QuickBooks and and drop in the bank
31:38 statements and reconcile it and all of a
31:40 sudden you start going like, “Ah, this
31:42 makes total sense, right?”
31:44 Well, I did get a degree in accounting,
31:46 but I did not know what how to use
31:48 QuickBooks. So, you know, they don’t
31:50 they teach you a lot of theory. So,
31:52 you’re accounting undergrad. Yeah. I
31:54 think that actually was very helpful.
31:55 And I didn’t learn anything until I
31:57 opened the bar. Yeah. You don’t learn
31:58 it, but I learned how to account. You at
31:59 least understand the con. Like, at the
32:01 time, like I’ve taken an accounting
32:03 class and like none of that really
32:04 applied, but like once you go back and
32:06 you need it, you’re like, “Okay, these
32:07 things all tie together now. It all
32:09 makes sense.” Why I was doing journal
32:10 entries. I didn’t know what the hell
32:12 they were until I had the bar. And then
32:14 when we opened the bar, I was like, “Oh,
32:16 now I understand what cash management
32:18 is.” Funny. I didn’t know you studied
32:19 accounting till just now. So, yeah.
32:21 Undergrad accounting. I’m glad I did it,
32:23 but I mean, why are you so bad at it,
32:25 Casey? I know, right? You know, Michael,
32:28 you said a couple things and and and I
32:29 love this. So, one of So, one of our
32:31 partners here and he’s our operating
32:32 partner at H&M, you know, he’s he’s
32:34 releasing a book and it talks about his
32:36 NPC program and the first thing he does
32:38 is to grab hold of the money in the
32:41 first 90 days, right? The money, the
32:43 money, the money. Like, people don’t
32:45 realize that these businesses suck cash
32:48 like insane. And you’re typically 90% of
32:52 people are going to be underfunded. Um,
32:54 they did not account for certain things,
32:56 right? when they think about adbacks and
32:58 they think about all the stuff at
32:59 SDE, it’s not a real it may or may not
33:02 be a real number in the sense of cash
33:04 flow and you know getting around cash
33:07 flow is critical and you know we’re
33:08 we’re we’re currently right now closing
33:11 could be tomorrow, could be next week on
33:13 a company and and they don’t practice
33:15 cash flow management. They’re like in
33:16 the business of the your business which
33:18 is you know they um they’re project
33:21 based, right? So they’ve got to do that
33:23 that job costing. And so that
33:26 understanding that how to set up a
33:27 project, how to make the the AP AR, how
33:30 it all connects um such a huge part of
33:33 this game that we’re playing. And I I
33:36 would say that um I I still, you know,
33:39 doing projections, doing accurate
33:41 projections, and doing inaccurate, you
33:43 know, not inaccurate, but like uh
33:45 putting together a realistic budget. Uh
33:47 we just we just brought on a fractional
33:49 CFO um so that we could really put a
33:52 professional to this because I feel like
33:55 I’ve done a pretty decent job at it. But
33:58 whenever I look at my report and I look
33:59 at his there’s a big difference. So um
34:03 it’s you know it’s going to cost us some
34:05 money but I think that we’ve probably
34:06 already saved 20 30 grand just by
34:09 bringing them in and him pointing out a
34:10 handful of things. So, um, awesome. You
34:13 know, and again, I did not I didn’t have
34:15 management experience either. I’ve
34:17 always been a salesperson. So, you know,
34:19 you learn on the fly. You make mistakes.
34:22 You learn from them. Do self-study.
34:24 There’s endless amounts of information.
34:26 There’s a ton of books on all this. Uh,
34:28 I’m still learning every day. Um, but
34:31 management is it’s a difficult thing.
34:33 It’s not easy to manage people.
34:35 Completely agree. And then maybe before
34:36 we kind of wrap up, I what were some of
34:38 the other big mistakes just going in
34:39 that you wish you had talked to people
34:40 to kind of just help answer that
34:41 question?
34:44 Um well with uh with Stateline I would
34:48 say I mean a lot of the mistakes that I
34:49 made were people u focused because you
34:53 know with Stateline I I was became a
34:55 passive owner. Um I only work probably
34:59 you know five hours a week in the
35:01 business at the moment. Um, but I
35:04 thought that I could still do the same
35:06 at the pool companies and I wasn’t
35:09 really in there and getting to know
35:10 these employees and a lot of these
35:12 people have been here for 20, 30 years.
35:15 So whenever you have somebody like
35:16 myself that sits in an office and I’m
35:18 crunching numbers and I’m working on
35:19 this and trying to make the business
35:20 better, uh I neglected to really spend
35:25 time or neglected to to speak with the
35:27 employees about what they what they
35:29 missed about the previous ownership and
35:30 what it was now. We’ve been doing oneto
35:33 ones with each employee uh this year and
35:35 they’ve really painted some pictures
35:37 that I um you know I wasn’t uh I wasn’t
35:41 aware of. um and just getting their
35:43 attitude and it was surprising to hear
35:46 how much they had to say about me. Um
35:49 you know not not horrible things but um
35:51 just things that were fixable that if I
35:54 would have addressed this last year
35:57 there were just the the satisfaction of
35:59 the employees would have been a lot
35:60 better. So um you know really I find it
36:03 and if it’s a small business this is you
36:05 know some people buying 1020 million
36:07 company maybe it’s not the same case but
36:10 the respect that you get from these
36:11 people
36:13 it’s the same it’s the same man it is so
36:16 I I’m just going to share with you the
36:18 the same behaviors are the same in any
36:20 organization right there’s just more of
36:22 it and to kind of piggy back on yours
36:24 like some some mistakes that I made in
36:25 our in our you know it would have been
36:27 my second acquisition uh but first for
36:29 Equity Launchpad had was and I and I
36:31 think this is critical is you’ve got to
36:34 talk to the seller and you’ve got to
36:36 give them education about the handoff
36:39 and I think the way you do that and it’s
36:41 hard in your first acquisition because
36:43 you don’t have like this execution plan
36:45 but you should have some form of a game
36:47 plan and you got to get the sellers buy
36:49 in if he’s going to stay on with you
36:51 right you’ve got to get those
36:52 commitments along the way and then you
36:55 got to meet with that so if he stays on
36:56 for a year or two years you’ve got to
36:59 have those oneon-one once reviewing it
37:01 and going, “Hey, how is it working?
37:03 How’s it not?” Because that seller is
37:05 going to think they’re the owner,
37:08 they’re they’re even though they you
37:09 bought it and they have no skin in the
37:11 game, right? And that other one too is
37:13 also communication with your with with
37:15 the with the team about like before you
37:18 make the changes, get get team buy in,
37:21 right? Because I made those mistakes.
37:22 It’s like you and I, Michael, we’re
37:24 we’re sales side. we we go we just make
37:26 it happen and you completely forget like
37:29 oh my god that person that’s been here
37:31 20 years is going to look at me like I’m
37:32 an idiot.
37:34 Yeah. So those are some of those things
37:35 I learned. Well and not coming from the
37:37 industry that was their biggest concern
37:39 is like you’re buying a pool company and
37:41 you have zero
37:42 experience any anything related to pools
37:45 selling them working on them anything.
37:47 You swam? Yeah, I’ve swam in them.
37:50 That’s what I told him. like I’ve swam
37:52 in a lot of pools, but I had no know
37:54 absolutely nothing about this business.
37:56 And I was honest with the with the
37:59 employees and said that we’re going to,
38:01 you know, I I operate I’ve operated a
38:03 company for three years. I’m going to do
38:05 the same thing here. I’m going to get
38:07 in. I’m going to learn. And um you know
38:10 the the difference was like you
38:11 mentioned you know you really need to
38:13 speak with that owner and get a
38:14 realistic picture of like what they did
38:16 on their day-to-day basis because you
38:18 know the previous owner used to spend
38:20 his afternoons at the retail store and
38:22 just because he enjoyed it. He liked to
38:24 be there. He’d be filling in for people
38:26 when they’d call in sick. You know I’m
38:28 running through companies. I don’t have
38:29 the luxury to be able to go do that. Uh
38:31 but I can go help out. If I have time in
38:33 my schedule I’ll go help out. They
38:35 really appreciate it. But um you know
38:37 those conversations weren’t had because
38:39 we were focused on the back end. And you
38:42 know another thing I would say is that
38:43 don’t uh the time that you have with the
38:46 seller you know some when they say
38:48 indefinitely or they say we’ll give you
38:50 a year or two you don’t know what the
38:51 hell’s going to happen because the guy
38:53 that we bought the business from he got
38:55 brain cancer six months after we bought
38:56 the business and he didn’t he didn’t
38:59 even know that who he sold the company
39:00 to. So, I thought that we had another
39:04 season for me to pick up, you know, what
39:06 I, you know, what I missed or what I
39:07 wasn’t comfortable with. And we, you
39:10 know, tried to put together SOPs and,
39:13 you know, some people aren’t good
39:14 teachers. And he had a really hard time
39:16 explaining the process. And, uh, yeah, I
39:20 mean, last January was a very different
39:22 place than we were this January. Wow.
39:25 So, well, my Michael, I mean, first off,
39:29 way to be an entrepreneur. This is all
39:30 about, you know, take the name, the
39:33 roller coaster rides and having the ups
39:35 and downs and, you know, you just the
39:37 other day, you know, I think I had my
39:39 first week where I just did not feel
39:41 like everything was going to cave in on
39:42 me. Um, and and it actually felt really
39:45 good. Like I missed that. It had been
39:47 many many like six months of just
39:49 we’ve been dealing with. That’s insane.
39:51 And it like didn’t stop. It was like one
39:53 after another after another. I talked to
39:55 Ferris and I was like I man I I this
39:58 sucks but we’re entrepreneurs counsel
39:60 each other. It’s good to have other
40:01 guys. It’s good to have somebody to call
40:03 like oh my god you won’t believe what
40:04 else happened and uh but it’s refreshing
40:07 because there are moments where you get
40:08 a breath of fresh air and then what we
40:10 do is we go figure out tasks that we
40:12 need to do that start you know creating
40:14 new concerns and issues but that’s
40:16 that’s the nature of entrepreneurship.
40:17 Got to solve problems move forward.
40:19 Good. Well Michael we’re going to jump
40:21 into our rocket round.
40:23 Let’s hear. This is where we talk to our
40:25 guest and ask him three questions. Uh
40:27 pretty pretty detailed questions here.
40:29 All right. So, first question, uh what
40:31 do you like to do in your free time? Um
40:34 I’m out anything outdoors. Uh we bike, I
40:37 bicycle around the St. Louis area and
40:39 stuff a lot. Um run, uh just got into
40:42 swimming. Um you know, really anything
40:45 that’s active. I mean, that’s that’s
40:47 usually what occupies my spare time. Um,
40:51 but yeah, we travel a little bit
40:52 whenever we have time. Um, that’s that’s
40:56 really about that’s that’s the majority
40:57 of the time. Let’s be honest. Well, I
40:59 started playing golf probably about two
41:01 years ago. So, nice. You should meet me
41:03 in Moab in two weeks. I’m doing a biking
41:05 trip out there where we’re going uh
41:07 basically we’re going to fly in. It’s
41:10 three days carrying all of our water and
41:12 gear. So, we’ll see if I make it back.
41:13 No, it sounds exciting and I want to get
41:15 to do more of that. Um, you know, I I
41:17 feel like I lost myself over the past
41:19 two years just because of every all the
41:21 chaos, but it’s good. You know, putting
41:24 some time into myself and, you know,
41:26 it’s uh I I used to give the owner a lot
41:28 of trouble because, you know, he was
41:30 retiring at 73 and he, you know, just
41:33 walking away with, you know, three best
41:35 years they ever had in the business and
41:37 he just walked away with, you know, a $3
41:38 million check and he doesn’t know what
41:41 the hell he’s going to go do. And I was
41:43 like, what? What do you mean? you just
41:45 you you’ve got several millions of
41:46 dollars in the bank. You’re 73. Go do
41:48 whatever you want. But he never had any
41:50 hobbies. He never really had much of a
41:52 personal life. And it’s like those are
41:54 the things that you forget. And
41:55 honestly, those are the things that are
41:56 going to get you through the
41:58 that you got to deal with on a
41:59 day-to-day basis here. So, very good
42:01 point. All right, next question. What’s
42:04 your most memorable moment in your
42:05 business journey so far?
42:08 um several, but I would say the ones
42:11 that stick out with the pool companies
42:13 is our key employee got ran over,
42:15 physically ran over by a vehicle and uh
42:19 I found out that the uh previous owner
42:22 of the pool, the other pool company, uh
42:24 got diagnosed with brain cancer and that
42:26 was within two months of each other. So,
42:30 um yeah, that was uh it was a panic
42:33 moment. Um I’m proud of myself for
42:35 getting through it.
42:36 um you know, you always have a dark day,
42:39 but there’s going to be another one
42:40 ahead of you. But that was um that was
42:43 Yeah, I would say that’s about the most
42:44 memorable moment with those companies.
42:46 It’s real stuff when you work with
42:48 people, right? With Stateline, we had uh
42:50 I I was in New York waiting for a train.
42:53 We’re going to go see my wife’s brother
42:55 and um previous owner called me and told
42:58 me that we owed about a half a million
42:59 dollars to our vendors and the her was
43:04 doing the books and we didn’t have a
43:06 half a million dollars. So we had to
43:08 scramble and uh figure out how we were
43:10 going to pay these people and yeah so I
43:12 would say with Stateline that was
43:13 probably about the most memorable one.
43:15 Wow. Got it. The last question favorite
43:17 tool resource.
43:19 I mean, these podcasts, uh, they’re
43:21 huge, you know, just hearing the stories
43:23 and hearing the that people go
43:24 through. I mean, it’s it’s, uh, you’re
43:26 not in it alone. Uh, I would say that
43:29 the, uh, groups that I’m involved in,
43:32 EO, entrepreneurs organization, Vistage,
43:36 uh, entrepreneurs organization, you
43:37 really get in your fields with it. So, I
43:39 can, these people know me, um,
43:41 intimately. Uh, we share things that you
43:45 would never tell anybody. I mean things
43:46 that I don’t even probably tell my wife
43:48 or you know my family. Um because you
43:51 know that’s that’s the whole point of
43:53 doing this. Uh Vistage is very
43:55 businessoriented. Uh but it’s nice you
43:58 the uh the moderator the uh organization
44:02 she’s kind of like a therap business
44:04 therapist. So it doesn’t matter we you
44:06 know half the time we’re not talking
44:07 about business. We’re just talking about
44:09 the that I’m going through. Um, so
44:12 those resources I will tell you that
44:14 they were a gamecher in my life, uh,
44:17 professionally and personally. Um, so I
44:20 would say that, you know, if you’re
44:21 going down this path, get somebody
44:24 that’s in the same stuff that you’re in
44:25 because, you know, they always say it’s
44:27 lonely on top. And they say that because
44:29 you can’t tell your employees the
44:30 that you’re thinking. Um, nice thing
44:33 about having a partner, too, just to
44:34 kind of Well, and I don’t I I have
44:37 partners, but they’re all silent
44:38 partners and they don’t want to hear,
44:40 you know, they don’t want to hear the
44:41 check. They can’t handle the stress of
44:43 that. I mean, check partner. Yeah. And
44:45 it’s not even about they they don’t want
44:46 to hear it. It’s like they they don’t
44:48 understand like that is normal
44:50 operations, right? Like they think
44:52 things are imploding. If you’re talking
44:53 to them, they think things must be
44:54 really bad and they’re versus like ah
44:56 yeah, it’s a problem. That’s just that’s
44:58 that’s that’s entrepreneurialism. So
44:60 they need an operating partner that is
45:03 deep in and gets what’s going on good,
45:04 bad, and ugly and has been through
45:06 challenges that knows how to solve,
45:07 right? Like it’s all about solving
45:09 things. Yep. Right. Yeah. I did that
45:11 with Stateline with uh one of the
45:12 partners and um you know he’s a friend
45:14 of mine so you know he listened but at
45:16 the same time you know they get very
45:19 uneasy and you know it’s not uh you know
45:22 the sky is not always falling. It could
45:24 just be a bad day. could be a lot of
45:25 stuff coming at you, but you know, these
45:27 other groups, they’re it’s it’s good to
45:29 have that uh circle around you. Very
45:32 nice. Very good. Awesome. Well, Michael,
45:34 how can uh guests get a hold of you?
45:36 LinkedIn’s probably the best way. Um I’m
45:39 open. You know, it’s uh there’s always
45:41 time in the schedule despite everything
45:42 going on. And if it’s, you know, a half
45:44 hour to an hour call, I really don’t
45:45 mind it. Um you know, people have had me
45:48 look at deals, uh give my opinion. You
45:51 know, I’ve got quite a bit of experience
45:52 with the garage door company now. and
45:54 then now in the pool industry. So,
45:56 anybody that’s looking in those areas, I
45:57 can definitely help. Uh I just I’m
45:60 speaking with another uh independent
46:02 sponsor about a a roofing company that
46:04 they just closed on I think Friday last
46:07 week and gave a lot of really helpful
46:09 advice to them. Um so, yeah, I’m I’m
46:12 always open. That is awesome. All right,
46:13 I’ll put that in the show. Thank you so
46:14 much for joining us, man. This has been
46:16 a great great podcast. Thanks, man. I
46:18 appreciate you guys having me on. Thank
46:20 you for listening to the M&A Launchpad
46:22 podcast. If you’ve enjoyed today’s
46:23 podcast and would like to support us,
46:25 please leave us a rating and a review
46:26 after you listen. If you’re looking for
46:28 guidance on your next business
46:29 acquisition or sale, capital to support
46:32 your next business transaction or to
46:33 invest in a private equity opportunity,
46:36 visit equityaunchpad.com to learn more
46:38 and to connect with our team. If you
46:40 know of an individual who would be a
46:41 great guest for the show, head over to
46:45 equityaunchpad.com/nominate where you’ll
46:47 have the chance to refer yourself or
46:48 someone else to be a guest on our show.
46:50 I’m Casey Mchu and I look forward to
46:52 talking with you next week.
