Strategies to Grow and Adapt as an Entrepreneur with Matt Pohl

In this episode of the M&A Launchpad Podcast, hosts Feras Moussa and Casey Minshew welcome special guest Matt Pohl, Founder of The ReWild Group.  Matt shares his journey of transitioning from a corporate job to becoming a business owner. This discussion covers Matt’s decision to buy a lifestyle business, the eventual realization of the true value of his company, and how he managed to grow and sell it.    

Matt highlights the significant mindset shift required to transition from a technician to a business owner dedicated to growth and scaling. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding business valuation and creating transferable value. Furthermore, Matt discusses his current involvement with multiple ventures, including car washes and a welding business, and his partnership in a business consulting initiative, showcasing the diverse paths an entrepreneur can take post-exit. 

In this podcast episode, we discuss:  

  • Growth Strategies for Business Owners 
  • Process of Selling the Business 
  • Changing Mindset to Succeed 
  • Adjusting to New Ownership  

Time stamp:

00:00 Introduction 

02:00 Who is Matt Pohl? 

09:37 The Turning Point: Valuation and Mindset Shift 

15:08 Implementing Growth Strategies 

28:27 Exit Strategy and Negotiations 

35:02 His Diverse Business Ventures Post-Exit 

43:02 Rocket Round 

You can connect with Matt by email: mpohl@rewildgroup.com  

Check out The ReWild Group: The ReWild Group: Business Growth Framework for Organizational ReWilding 

Additional Resources:

Transcript

00:00 all right on today’s episode we
00:01 interviewed Matt Po and man we talked
00:04 about a lot of different things we
00:05 really dived in on kind of transitioning
00:07 from a corporate gig into buying your
00:09 own business right really treating that
00:11 more as a lifestyle business for several
00:13 years getting a chance to essentially
00:15 being approached on hey someone will buy
00:16 your business and learning that whoa
00:17 whoa whoa you know the business is not
00:19 worth what you thought it was and that
00:20 kind of clicked right it changed the
00:22 mindset of okay now I need to go Build
00:24 and Grow this business right and
00:26 ultimately going and making a successful
00:28 exit right huge kind of improvement I
00:30 think the math that I said was about $9
01:31 million gain over three years of work
01:34 right and then ultimately going out and
01:35 scaling and becoming more of a you know
01:37 like to say like a board member right
01:39 getting exposed to other businesses and
01:40 applying some of the skill sets he’s
01:41 learned I mean lots of golden nuggets in
01:43 this one so Casey what do you think yeah
01:45 I think we touched on so many different
01:46 things so if you’re somebody that’s
01:47 listening and you’re looking to sell
01:49 your company Matt talks a lot about some
01:51 of the things he went through when he
01:52 sold his company uh big things but if
01:54 you’re also searching for a business or
01:56 you’re looking at a he gives some great
01:57 details on the mindset shift from going
01:00 a technician somebody that does the
01:02 technical work and thinking like that to
01:04 how do I grow and scale and because he
01:06 applied his methodology and like you
01:09 said what nine million in three years
01:11 yeah I I mean massive I think and I
01:13 think there’s a lot of valuable
01:14 information in this one for people that
01:16 are both selling and buying your
01:17 business right because I mean again
01:19 Casey and I are experiencing these same
01:20 issues currently right you start to
01:22 learn the mindset of a seller the
01:24 mindset of a buyer and how do you work
01:25 around some of the challenges that going
01:27 to naturally arise right and how do you
01:28 create win-win structures and so again
01:30 man lots of really good information in
02:32 this yeah let’s Dive Right
02:37 In hey everybody it’s Ferris and we’
02:39 love to see you at our upcoming m&a
02:41 Launchpad conference in Chicago October
02:43 26th at a conference we talk about what
02:45 it looks like to value a business how to
02:47 buy a business how do you manage a team
02:49 right and ultimately we’re big Believers
02:51 in the buy then build concept so we’re
02:52 going to have one of our friends Walker
02:54 diable the author of B and build there
02:56 as well as one of our Keynotes and many
02:57 more so love to see there to kind of get
02:59 exposure to the space Network all right
02:01 on today’s episode we have Matt pole
02:03 Matt welcome to the show thanks for
02:04 having me on guys yeah great to have you
02:06 Matt glad you have you on so Matt you
02:08 know s entrepreneur right let’s go ahead
02:10 and talk about maybe you know your first
02:12 business right how you got into it and
02:13 then ultimately let’s talk about the
02:14 progression of the different businesses
02:15 and what you’ve kind of accomplish and
02:17 where you’re going okay yeah um uh even
02:21 to go back maybe a small step before
02:24 that you know early in my career 20s and
02:26 30s I worked for the Federal Reserve
02:28 Bank Arthur Anderson and corporate
03:31 Express so I had kind of this quasi
03:33 government environment this uh you know
03:36 high-end accounting consultancy really I
03:40 wasn’t an accountant um and then kind of
03:42 a corporate environment where I was in
03:44 data warehousing and Knowledge
03:46 Management so kind of had three
03:48 different flavors early in my career and
03:50 then decided really all along I had this
03:53 itch to have my own business my my
03:56 father had his own business growing up
03:59 so I think I got a little bit of that
03:00 from him but part of his journey was you
03:04 know when I was just getting into High
03:05 School my dad actually lost his business
03:08 and he was an interior designer that was
03:11 just in every fiber of his body and for
03:14 him to lose that business when he was
03:17 about 50 really I I didn’t realize it at
03:20 that age but that that was something he
03:22 never recovered from he was never the
03:24 same having lost his business so when I
03:28 launched my business first business my
03:30 wife and I are business partners so we
04:32 launched that in mid-30s we had four
04:34 small kids and I basically started a
04:37 business that replicated some of the
04:39 work that I done at Arthur Anderson kind
04:41 of a specialty Consulting uh company
04:44 that works with attorneys involved in
04:46 class action lawsuits so it was
04:49 Professional Services it was um
04:52 administrative and data data
04:55 analysis uh kind of a business working
04:57 with attorneys so let’s hop into that
04:60 right so Federal Reserve author Anderson
04:02 you know very much a suit job right suit
04:05 tie every day and jumping in doing your
04:07 own business a whole different animal
04:09 let alone right doing essentially data
04:12 warehousing right it sounds like it’s
04:13 kind of more of the focus and so kids
04:15 and his wife yeah so how do you make
04:17 that jump right I mean my background is
04:19 software so for me I’m comfortable with
04:20 data and you know building something
04:22 around that but I mean that’s a very
04:24 kind of a niche thing and also requires
04:26 a lot of things that you may not have
04:27 known at the time so what how did you
04:29 ultimately kind of decid to make that
05:30 jump yeah so my academic background is
05:34 in statistics and information system so
05:36 I’ve been I’m a data guy naturally um
05:39 which doesn’t necessarily turn out to be
05:42 a good business owner right I mean
05:44 yourself out of your your your natural
05:47 strengths but um get numbers I do like
05:50 to say the so I graduated computer
05:52 science right and the hardest class I
05:54 ever took was probability in the math
05:55 department I mean okay I had this crazy
05:57 Croatian teacher her dad taught her
05:59 probabilties she was like two years old
05:01 and it was just a very difficult class
05:03 though that’s off to you yeah I had a a
05:06 stats professor at at the University of
05:08 Denver Dr H Bazar uh Indian descent and
05:13 um he he was the same way just you know
05:16 he just oo statistics and so um it was a
05:20 great class it was definitely
05:22 challenging but um yeah kind of the
05:25 impetus for starting our business part
05:27 of it was our we have four children and
05:30 the youngest was in getting into school
06:33 and my wife who had worked you know
06:36 prior to being a mother and continue to
06:39 do work part-time as a mother uh she
06:42 wanted something to do you know in a
06:44 professional environment you know not
06:46 waiting tables and stuff like that but
06:49 yet still be a mom and so we struggled
06:51 with trying to find an opportunity and
06:53 so we said well maybe we just have to
06:55 make our own opportunity and we’ had
06:56 been talking about doing the settlement
06:59 Administration work
06:00 and it really played off of each of our
06:02 strengths so that’s that’s why we kind
06:04 of launched that and U you know I would
06:08 say very ignorantly very unaware of what
06:11 we were doing you know I just figured
06:13 hey we’re smart enough we work hard
06:15 enough you know there’s a lot of
06:17 mediocrity out in the market we can we
06:18 can do it better than others so let’s go
06:21 figure it out we didn’t have a single
06:23 client for the first nine months and we
06:26 had narrowed down we were down to just a
06:29 Toyota Corolla with our four kids and
07:32 the two of us and uh I don’t know that
07:35 we ever panicked but we we we were kind
07:38 of on the edge there and then we got our
07:40 first project and you know then we
07:43 started to get some
07:45 momentum and we owned that business for
07:47 15 years but the first 12 it was really
07:50 a lifestyle business and so we’ have up
07:54 years down years up years down years
07:56 that was just the the cycle we moved
07:58 bought a new building you know had some
07:60 positive things and the reality is we
07:03 had a great business uh we were getting
07:06 really recognized in the market from the
07:08 quality of work we did but we were
07:11 competing bit against companies that
07:13 were 50 100 times our size really quick
07:17 because actually I I wanted to kind of H
07:19 hop in a little bit at the very first
07:20 couple of customers right what were you
07:22 pitching them did you have a product or
07:24 were you kind of winging it as you went
07:26 as you kind of listen to the customers
07:27 and what kind of clients were they right
07:29 were they Enterprise customers small
08:30 business I mean who was that client yeah
08:33 so our our customers were attorneys who
08:36 are involved in who whose clients were
08:39 involved in class action lawsuits so
08:41 they they were either the the attorneys
08:44 suing the big company or the attorneys
08:46 representing that big company and so the
08:49 product was was I would say somewhat
08:51 commoditized in that it was uh somewhat
08:55 of a somewhat of a custom solution at
08:58 least a configurable solution
08:00 but it was here’s a settlement go and
08:03 handle you know these rules have been
08:05 agreed to by the parties go and make
08:07 that happen so we didn’t have to come up
08:10 with a product per se uh it was a pretty
08:13 well known need and what was nice about
08:16 it is they didn’t have an option but to
08:18 hire somebody so this was a a buy
08:22 decision that they had to just select
08:25 from an option the the option of not
08:27 buying was not on the table for them
09:30 so that was kind of a real power
09:32 powerful aspect of our business because
09:36 it led to very little um you know um
09:40 economic Cycles within that business
09:43 people are always suing big companies
09:45 those companies are always having to
09:47 settle and they don’t get a choice you
09:50 know when that happens good times and
09:51 bad times so uh that was one of the
09:54 great strengths of that business and its
09:57 model is that you didn’t have these
09:59 economic Cycles in it when you and your
09:02 wife were you know kicking off the
09:04 business right one of my favorite books
09:06 is called emth um in that emyth you know
09:11 you’ve probably read it you know it’s
09:12 about you know hey we we’re us
09:14 technicians that get the technical side
09:16 of starting their business we totally
09:18 forget about being you know the
09:19 different working in the business not on
09:21 the business so at what point because it
09:23 sounds like you know it you had it 12
09:25 years it was a lifestyle business right
09:28 at what point did y’all have that
09:29 realization like hey we’ve got to stop
10:32 being the technicians and we’ve got to
10:33 grow something here yeah and that was
10:35 really the fundamental shift and what
10:39 what was the impetus is we had a
10:41 business broker come to us in year 12
10:43 and say hey uh you know have you ever
10:47 valued your business I think I might
10:48 have somebody who might be interested in
10:50 buying your business come to find out I
10:52 think that was just a sales tactic but
10:54 we fell into it and we said sure yeah we
10:57 never thought about it to be honest uh
10:59 hadn’t thought about what’s the value of
10:01 our business and of course like any
10:03 entrepreneur who’s been you know working
10:06 their business for 12 years and you see
10:08 that first number and you are very
10:12 disappointed um it’s it was kind of that
10:16 you know a key moment of of saying okay
10:21 we have two paths in front of us we can
10:24 continue to say let’s go down the
10:26 lifestyle business path and have a good
10:30 lifestyle business that’s paying for our
11:31 four kids and a nice lifestyle or we can
11:35 change and say let’s find a way to grow
11:38 value some transferable value into the
11:41 business and we looked at each other and
11:43 said well we we enjoy the work we’re
11:46 going to work hard and we’re going to be
11:48 working for the next 101 15 years why
11:50 wouldn’t we try to figure out how to
11:52 make the business worth something you
11:54 know five 10 15 years out into the
11:57 future and it it was at that point I
11:60 reflected back on my father and said I
11:02 don’t want to be that I don’t want to be
11:05 I don’t be the guy that one day just
11:07 goes turns out the lights locks the door
11:10 for the last time and walks away for
11:12 decade from Decades of effort with
11:14 nothing to show for it so I’m guessing
11:16 you very quickly started to learn how to
11:19 how our business is valued right and
11:21 maybe my question is you know what was
11:23 your revenue and iida at the time what
11:26 value did they give you and what was in
11:28 your head before you got that price
11:29 maybe I’m just
12:32 curious uh in all honesty I don’t think
12:36 Don or I had a number in our mind when
12:39 before we got the number back um knew it
12:42 wasn’t that number it wasn’t that you
12:45 know your wives ever do that it’s like I
12:48 don’t know what I want but I know I
12:49 don’t want that and that’s kind of where
12:51 we were at a little bit um we were
12:54 running uh I would say a million to a
12:57 million and a half in Revenue uh at that
12:60 point and we had a very profitable
12:02 business we were putting 25 to 35% to
12:06 the bottom line in in net income so
12:09 really high margins uh and a good net
12:13 income our valuation was just under a
12:15 million dollars at that point which you
12:18 know back then a million dollars was
12:20 actually not too bad but it wasn’t
12:22 enough to say okay we can
12:24 retire yeah and it doesn’t represent 12
12:26 years you know because you start going
12:28 okay I put a million divided by 12 man
13:31 what we didn’t really make anything like
13:33 it’s I the problem the problem is this
13:34 and this is exactly what Casey and I
13:36 were facing literally this week right on
13:38 a business that we’re working on buying
13:39 you know as an owner right you got a 4X
13:41 multiple let’s just say that right maybe
13:43 it was a three three to 4X range for
13:46 sure which is fair market value is right
13:49 yeah kind have a quasi software spin so
13:51 maybe there’s a little bit of argument
13:52 for more but you know you’re you’re
13:53 still in the range and the issue is as a
13:55 business owner you’re like well if I
13:57 just hold this for three years or I hold
13:58 this for four years I make get money
13:60 back and I still have the business yes
13:01 exctly that’s the mindset that as a
13:04 buyer we have to and that’s why we like
13:05 doing seller carries we like structuring
13:08 things that are win-win with our buyers
13:09 or with our sellers so that way you know
13:11 they get that upside too right and we
13:13 kind of help address that conversation
13:15 because as a seller you’re always going
13:16 to have that problem and so ultimately
13:17 if the dollar amount is not enough for
13:19 you to say you know what I’m retiring
13:20 today on the sale million dollars is you
13:23 know you saw have kids Etc that’s not a
13:25 that’s a lot but not a lot at the same
13:26 time right like hey I might as well just
13:28 hold on longer right got four kids and
13:30 if I fund all the kids you know college
14:33 funds crap after taxes we’re toast we’re
14:37 toast right right and it it is that
14:39 opportunity cost right it’s that lost
14:41 future Revenue that you’re balancing
14:44 against the current sales price and you
14:46 think okay 3x well I can get that in the
14:49 next three years right and if I’m
14:51 growing then
14:52 I right and um so it was the light bulb
14:57 shifts right all of a sudden y’all say
14:58 hold on I want to we’re going to turn
14:01 this we’re gonna if we’re g to sell it
14:02 we’re going to turn it into something
14:04 it’s like that that iida thing the
14:05 broker kept talking about we need to
14:06 start to track that right believe in
14:09 that religiously yeah and net worth that
14:12 was another thing right so just from a
14:14 personal standpoint to start to say
14:16 where do we want to be you know what
14:18 what’s our net worth and uh you know
14:20 just some you know common things that a
14:22 lot of people who haven’t thought about
14:24 and make this transition you start to
14:26 think about and when you start to set
14:28 goals and put numbers out there that
14:30 there all of a sudden things start to I
15:32 don’t know start to move and for us the
15:35 critical thing was um at that point we
15:39 said okay what do we need to change how
15:41 are we going to change how are we going
15:42 to build more transferable value and I
15:44 can’t say I went in and said okay here’s
15:47 you know I I didn’t I could have done
15:49 this you know I like numbers but I
15:51 didn’t go in and start looking at the
15:52 numbers and start saying okay how do we
15:54 change the numbers I said what do we
15:57 need to change in our business because
15:59 if we if we improve our business it was
15:01 my thought then the value would be there
15:03 so we have to change our business in a
15:06 way that creates transferable value and
15:09 it was at that point I uh stumbled on a
15:13 book that a pier CEO Pier had given me
15:17 and uh it talked about how businesses go
15:21 through these different stages of growth
15:23 and it was it laid out this roadmap for
15:25 me that said oh you know I’ve worked for
15:29 Arthur Anderson I’m a smart dude but I
16:32 only have my own experience to kind
16:35 of uh to use and I realize that I have
16:39 gaps in that I’m very good at doing the
16:42 business but yeah working on the
16:44 business and getting it to the next
16:46 level is just something I was ignorant
16:48 in I just didn’t know but you know that
16:51 that that’s that is a lot of what is out
16:54 there you know we’re we’re finding like
16:56 even in our searches of what we’re
16:58 looking for we’re talking about business
16:59 owners even very successful like the one
16:02 that Ferris was just talking about the
16:03 guy’s making you know $2 million a year
16:07 right he’s built a a business he’s got
16:09 it working but he’s like hey I think
16:11 this thing can scale like I think it can
16:14 grow but I don’t even have the energy or
16:16 the time or the effort to do it right
16:19 and that is and that and that’s the
16:20 pretty exciting place in
16:21 entrepreneurship is when you realize hey
16:23 I need to I want to grow how do I grow
16:27 yeah I mean and they see the value of
16:28 Partners right right and that’s where
16:29 Partnerships are are there and so you
17:32 know it’s um and there’s a phrase that I
17:34 like and I say this a lot to my
17:35 leadership right it’s like how we got
17:36 from there to here it’s different how
17:37 we’re going to get from here to there so
17:39 it’s like you know you go through in a
17:41 company’s life cycle you go through so
17:42 many you know phases I remember whenever
17:44 it was you know me and a partner and
17:46 then whenever it was me and a partner
17:48 and a person and then you go to 10
17:50 people 20 people 100 people 200 people I
17:52 mean it’s all businesses have different
17:55 problems to solve and again and
17:57 sometimes it’s the personality maybe the
17:59 person’s not the right fit right maybe
17:01 you know they don’t understand how to
17:02 scale I mean all of these things it’s
17:03 like you need a certain thing at a
17:05 certain phase that you may not need
17:06 later and vice versa and you have to you
17:08 know you have to get behind that right
17:09 in order to be able to actually scale
17:10 and grow a company and that’s it’s tough
17:12 for a lot of you know owners to do right
17:15 and you hear about this in the news
17:16 where you know a Founder got pushed out
17:18 of a company because this different
17:19 person’s taking it public right it’s a
17:21 different skill set a different mindset
17:22 a different set of relationships to be
17:24 able to elevate it and it’s just you
17:25 know it’s tough for Founders because
17:26 you’ve been doing it from the beginning
17:28 and yeah yeah and that’s that that
18:31 really was what this uh road map helped
18:34 me with is to see we were in stage one
18:36 we kept on going to stage two and then
18:38 pulling back to stage one and not only
18:41 just that concept but it it helped me
18:43 see the specific areas that I wasn’t
18:46 aligned with the rules of growth so each
18:48 of these stages have specific rules and
18:50 if you’re misaligned it’s like putting
18:53 my analogy here in Colorado it’s like I
18:55 like to climb 14ers each year so a
18:57 14,000 Peak
18:60 uh here in Colorado well I don’t I don’t
18:02 start my my Trek up that mountain side
18:06 by bending down open up my backpack and
18:08 stuffing as as much as I can with a
18:10 bunch of Boulders I don’t do that I want
18:13 to make my backpack light and what many
18:16 business owners are doing is they’re
18:18 misaligned with the rules of growth they
18:20 have a heavy backpack growth is very
18:22 hard and simply by aligning to these
18:25 rules you get a rid of a lot of this
18:28 dead weight and it makes it um you know
19:32 if you have too heavy of a backpack you
19:34 often get only so far up that mountain
19:36 and you say growth is just too hard it’s
19:40 just not worth it to continue on but
19:42 with a light backpack you can continue
19:45 on and get further up that that Hill a
19:48 great analogy a great analogy clim guys
19:50 that like to climb things yeah we talk
19:51 about climbing after the show nice you
19:53 know no but I mean there’s a lot of
19:54 Truth and was funny that’s that’s
19:55 literally a position I feel like I’m in
19:57 now with the business it’s like okay
19:58 things have gotten heavy like what do we
19:59 need to do to kind of optimize and
19:01 simplify so we could start to focus on
19:03 the important things and so well and to
19:05 go back to your statement of what got
19:06 you here won’t get you there that truly
19:09 is the case because the the research
19:12 from this methodology shows what does
19:15 change so if you’re operating your stage
19:17 three business like a stage two business
19:20 you literally are using the wrong set of
19:22 rules to grow your business and that’s
19:24 why it feels so hard but if I could tell
19:27 you when you get to 20 one employees you
20:30 go into stage three and here is a whole
20:34 list of things that you need to get
20:35 align with now I can do that um most
20:39 entrepreneurs they’re willing to do
20:41 anything but they just need to know what
20:43 and what are they left with trial and
20:45 error so they just keep on trying things
20:48 until they find something that works and
20:50 that’s a lot of time energy and years
20:52 that are often lost trying to figure it
20:55 out when there’s a road map that can
20:57 help so what’s the the book the name of
20:60 the book is navigating the growth curve
20:03 navigating the grow curve navigating the
20:05 growth curve awesome and um essentially
20:11 we got this methodology in year 12 we
20:14 applied it for three years and in fact
20:16 the author of the book lives in
20:18 Broomfield so just me and so um I did
20:22 some he did some coaching with me and
20:25 helped me understand kind of the
20:26 concepts in the books I’m kind of good
20:29 that if you give me a concept I can
21:31 usually connect the dots and make it you
21:33 know implement it and so um bottom line
21:37 in those next three years we we went
21:39 from a business that for a decade had
21:41 been in that million million and a half
21:43 range and we tripled the business we
21:46 tripled in Revenue uh we we tripled in
21:49 number of employees and our margins
21:51 actually
21:52 improved which was amazing because
21:54 usually during that time margins get
21:56 compressed because
21:58 you’re depends on the business right
21:60 some have like a status quo that you
21:01 have to like get past and then
21:02 everything above that becomes more
21:03 profitable and some they SC yeah it’s
21:06 it’s yeah that’s a whole
21:07 another to talk about but was
21:09 interesting then is uh in year 15 we
21:12 were approached by one of some
21:14 Executives that had left one of our
21:16 biggest competitors and they ended up
21:18 buying our business as a platform
21:20 company and you know you don’t always
21:23 get this experience but we had that pre
21:26 you know before we started working on
21:28 the business and you know 3 years later
22:30 of working on the business and we went
22:33 from a million doll valuation to a $10
22:36 million valuation we went from like a 3X
22:39 multiplier of SD to a 10x multiplier of
22:43 SD we had a totally different business
22:47 we didn’t you know we didn’t just
22:50 improve our house a little bit it was a
22:52 total remodel with a new tool and
22:54 another addition and more garage space
22:56 it was a different property a different
22:58 asset
22:59 you know what’s kind of neat is that you
22:00 know in that 12-year period though right
22:02 because people talk about well if you
22:03 would have known that six years earlier
22:05 you could have been there so much faster
22:07 but you know what you were probably at
22:09 that point after you know I always call
22:11 it tilling the soil right you and your
22:13 wife had tilled the soil you knew your
22:15 product you knew your customer you just
22:17 it was a part of who you were and in
22:19 that decade you created your business so
22:22 you then shifted to just apply the
22:24 principles right you were then able to
22:26 go man we’ve got the product we’ve got
22:28 the the customer so right you know now
23:31 we know how to scale it so it’s pretty
23:33 amazing you know see but I’ll take the
23:34 contrarian view right because you know
23:37 the way I look at it Matt is you
23:38 basically made $9 million in three years
23:40 right that’s one way to look at it right
23:42 yeah and you know you need a few years
23:45 to get product fit and build a base but
23:47 it’s a you need you know you need to
23:50 have a mindset mind mindset shift right
23:53 and you know and I actually believe if
23:54 he would have gotten exposed five years
23:57 earlier he would have probably acted
23:58 five years sooner too right and you know
23:00 and as as a serial business owner myself
23:03 I mean you you you know a lot of
23:05 business owners hear about BOS or
23:07 Pinnacle or you know these Business
23:08 Solutions and there’s a lot of value to
23:10 these right like it’s not you know Fufu
23:12 or Juju whatever the phrases people talk
23:14 about right it really is starts to teach
23:16 you on hey how do you start to be
23:18 disciplined in understanding your
23:19 business and managing your people and
23:21 scaling it but here’s the thing he
23:23 wasn’t ready see it would have been
23:26 introduced to him and his wife if it if
23:29 it was this is My Philosophy it doesn’t
24:31 have to be anybody else’s but I don’t
24:33 think I think he he it happened because
24:35 that’s the timing that was the right
24:37 moment and so I don’t know if he would
24:39 have been introduced earlier or if he
24:40 would have maybe heard it I don’t know
24:43 so but yeah I I it’s good to know it
24:46 yeah I think I think there’s truth in
24:48 both of what you’re saying right so we
24:50 were definitely ready for change because
24:53 we had struggled so long and we may not
24:55 have been open to change had we not gone
24:57 through that struggle ah there you go
24:60 it’s funny actually maybe they equate
24:01 that to a seller again same we have
24:03 another situ it’s once a seller has been
24:06 to two three fil transactions and they
24:08 see someone that they know can close
24:09 they’re a lot more motivated to get a
24:11 deal Done Right 100% yes absolutely no
24:14 that’s so true so coming out of that
24:17 experience um and so so so really quick
24:19 so okay I W to ask two questions what
24:21 were some of the big changes you did
24:22 fundamentally in the business to start
24:23 to get that growth yeah and then it
24:25 sounds like you know you grew iida I
24:28 mean it sounds like ibida you know north
24:29 of a million right you got that 10
25:31 million valuation but your buyer was you
25:34 know not buying for your ibida right
25:36 they are a you know there are a select
25:39 buyer that was looking for that platform
25:40 that they know they could probably Buy
25:42 in Bolt in and and do so my question is
25:44 like what was that structure that you
25:45 guys ended up doing in terms of exiting
25:47 that business right did they keep you on
25:49 were you part of the board did you do a
25:50 seller carry earn out mechanic was the
25:52 structure yeah yeah okay so uh ask the
25:56 first answer to your first question what
25:58 did we change
25:59 um and I would say um what are some
25:03 fundamental changes first um I had to
25:06 get aligned with the rules of growth and
25:08 I’ll give you just a a simple example
25:10 one of the rules deals with what’s
25:12 called Gates of focus Gates of focus
25:14 says you have profit people and process
25:18 those are the three gates you can go
25:19 through for growth but the right focus
25:22 on those three which are always all
25:24 important all three of those are
25:26 important all the time but based on your
25:28 stage growth you have to focus uh you
26:31 have to prioritize them I’m a process
26:34 guy I’m a systems guy I’m secondly a
26:36 people guy and then thirdly I’m a profit
26:39 guy and that’s just who I am naturally
26:42 and that’s what I appli to my business
26:45 and in stage one the right uh
26:49 priorization is profit people process in
26:53 stage two it’s profit process people and
26:56 I was off on both of those PE profit was
26:59 always at the bottom for me I just
26:01 figured profit comes if I get the other
26:03 two right so a big part of it was
26:06 shifting my mindset to say Matt you
26:08 can’t just build the best widget you got
26:11 to go s and so we put a tremendous
26:15 amount more effort in in business
26:18 development U and so one of those
26:21 efforts was uh we had a call center to
26:23 handle calls on our on our projects we
26:26 turned them into outbound salespeople
26:29 and we in one year we did 15,000
27:31 outbound calls to attorneys across the
27:34 country and the impact was instead of
27:36 80% of our proposals coming from people
27:39 who just happen to find our website and
27:41 never had heard about us
27:43 80% knew about us and had a referral as
27:47 why they were calling us and that
27:49 totally changed the Dynamics big focus
27:52 on sales no I mean it’s funny one of the
27:54 things that’s made me a much better
27:56 operator business owner is had a
27:57 software company early on and same thing
27:59 we had a Hummer in terms of the product
27:01 quality but we just didn’t know the
27:03 sales and marketing and did not invest
27:05 and even believe in that like it’s
27:06 almost like those things you you hear
27:07 about oh you build a great product the
27:09 clients will come that’s BS right like
27:11 you have to go really have a strategy to
27:13 do the sales and marketing and again
27:15 what what the what the road map helped
27:17 me with was to kind of give me
27:19 permission to change what comes
27:21 naturally to me not just permission but
27:23 gave me guidance so I I had to say okay
27:26 Matt get out of your comfort zone of
27:28 building systems to go out and meet with
28:30 clients so that was another thing I
28:32 started traveling the country and
28:34 meeting with attorneys in person so
28:37 those are a couple of things we we
28:39 codified our our values what we call our
28:41 core and our brand values that really
28:43 created a real big sense of unity and
28:46 distinguish this and then we we really
28:49 started to build out or our
28:51 organizational structure so um you know
28:54 in year 12 I was overseeing every
28:57 project by year 15 I was overseeing
28:59 people who were overseeing every project
28:02 so we just expanded our our
28:04 organizational and how many people was
28:06 it in your 12 and then how many people
28:07 was it in your 15 yeah in 12 we were
28:10 basela between like eight and 12 so that
28:14 that was kind of our where we couldn’t
28:16 get much past uh we were at in the high
28:19 30s uh when we sold the business awesome
28:22 big growth in three years exciting and
28:26 the so yeah my second question is yeah
28:28 about how did the Buell structure look
28:30 like yeah the structure the structure
29:33 was a combination of of cash and earn
29:36 out and fortunately my wife’s a very
29:39 good negotiator so she got uh and we had
29:43 somebody tell us whatever’s in the
29:45 earnout pool just just count that as
29:48 zero dollars and make sure you’re going
29:50 to be happy with whatever you get UPF
29:51 front and that was great wisdom for us
29:54 uh so she negotiated that we got a big
29:57 chunk of the money up front with a good
29:59 a good earnout and the idea was that I
29:02 would stay on and continue to help grow
29:04 the business and that’s are the reason
29:06 we we went ahead with the exit was I had
29:09 felt that I had taken the business you
29:12 know kind of to where I felt comfortable
29:15 I could take it and that these these
29:18 other uh the buyers had just connections
29:22 throughout the legal industry and you
29:24 know knew all these people that I would
29:26 never know and I would never be that’s
29:29 just not my strength I would never get
30:30 to that so I thought okay we want to
30:33 make some opportunity for our team and
30:36 they’re going to bring us a lot more
30:37 business and that allow us to kind of
30:39 maybe me focus a little bit more just on
30:41 the execution that’s my area of strength
30:44 so that was the plan as we exited got it
30:47 and so the bulk of it in cash some
30:49 earnout did you end up achieving the
30:52 whole earnout and did um at the same
30:54 time was there any sort of seller Equity
30:57 that rolled in or were you they just
30:59 motivating you purely by the earn out
30:01 just by the earn out and what what
30:04 turned out was after the the uh the
30:09 close is that the relationship between
30:12 the owners and Don and I uh seem to
30:15 shift dramatically and so it just to be
30:20 you know short story turns out that we
30:23 really were in a good fit from a value
30:25 standpoint from a you know kind of how
30:29 we operated uh our our business
31:32 philosophy and so uh I ended up uh
31:36 exiting I don’t remember three six
31:39 months after the the exit it so just
31:42 real quick because that that brings up a
31:43 valid point right because our listeners
31:45 you know these are might be new terms so
31:47 an earnout right just kind of give us an
31:48 idea how you would define an earnout
31:50 yeah so think of an earnout as kind of a
31:53 bonus that uh you know we were getting a
31:56 good compensation and then essentially
31:59 if we hit certain Revenue marks in the
31:02 subsequent years I think it was a two or
31:04 threee period of time there’d be an
31:07 additional chunk that would become
31:09 available you had to stay on right you
31:11 had to stay on to get that got it yeah I
31:13 had to stay on to get that so we ended
31:16 up walking away from you know a good you
31:19 know a decent amount of money but um I I
31:23 would just say kind of the if I could
31:25 share my insight on that is just make
31:28 sure you get to know if you’re going to
32:30 do an earnout make sure you get to know
32:33 the people who are buying your company
32:34 well enough just to know that they’re
32:37 really going to operate in your best
32:38 interest that you can really work with
32:40 them um and I would say there is a much
32:45 bigger transition than I I ever
32:48 anticipated uh from going from a
32:50 business owner back to being an employee
32:53 again that shift is well the way I say
32:56 it is for 15 years you couldn’t keep me
32:59 away from my business ah and in six
32:03 months I could barely make it to work on
32:06 a daily basis yeah is that because of
32:09 the the culture or was it just that you
32:10 were done you like because you because
32:12 y’all closed you were
32:14 like I can take a deep breath right I’m
32:18 I’m a very productive person I love to
32:20 work I find a lot of meeting and being
32:22 productive um so I’m I’m a worker I I I
32:27 get stuff done
32:29 uh I think there was two factors one is
33:32 an
33:33 unexpected change of not being an owner
33:36 anymore and being an employee there
33:39 there was just a there’s a shift there
33:42 and I don’t know if I was prepared not I
33:44 I clearly wasn’t prepared for that I
33:46 think uh probably a bigger part of it or
33:48 what exasperated that was just how how
33:52 different of a business philosophy the
33:55 new owners had compared to um to what we
33:59 had our brand who we were our brand
33:01 values our core values were totally
33:03 opposite I would say in many ways to the
33:05 new owners and so there there’s really
33:08 like a cultural Clash there that it’s
33:11 like we work so hard to create this
33:12 amazing work environment and culture and
33:15 literally it was just crushed and I just
33:19 I I really had a hard time seeing that
33:21 and accepting that no I mean you know
33:24 for us I mean it’s really you’re you’re
33:26 you’re courting your buyer recording or
33:28 seller both sides are recording and I
34:30 mean it’s funny for us a lot of what we
34:32 pitch to these sellers is hey like we’re
34:35 not here to rock the bow man we’re here
34:37 to jet fuel the things that you don’t
34:39 focus on right which is you know again
34:40 as starting a company you could probably
34:42 attested this the things that most
34:43 companies don’t focus on whenever you’re
34:45 going from zero to one is sales
34:47 marketing HR it accounting illegal those
34:49 things you’re very weak at right and so
34:51 for us it’s about hey let’s step in and
34:53 systematize what you’re doing and I
34:55 think the Testament that we had is one
34:56 of the businesses we bought you know the
34:58 seller jokes with the other guys in the
34:60 industry that we’re also looking at
34:01 buying he’s like the suits never showed
34:02 up right we didn’t show up and let’s act
34:04 half the people and take out all the
34:06 benefits it’s actually the opposite it’s
34:08 let’s grow the business let’s put that
34:09 back into the business and let’s build a
34:11 stable robust business and you know for
34:13 us it’s it’s been super valuable right
34:14 sellers want to work with us and at the
34:16 same time you know we retain people
34:18 right last thing you want to do is lose
34:20 a lot of that brain power and capacity I
34:22 mean right that’s what the business is
34:23 that’s what you’re buying ultimately
34:25 right well and looking back at it it
34:27 made no sense how it was handled I think
34:29 there was um you know a lack of
35:32 experience on the side of the buyers
35:33 they had that’s that’s just by
35:36 observation it’s like why would you come
35:38 in and and drive away the founder who
35:41 all the people are looking up to and and
35:44 motivated by that doesn’t seem like a
35:46 very good business practice you know
35:48 they did save a lot of money by getting
35:50 me to leave on my own uh maybe there was
35:52 a maybe that was intentional right like
35:55 bit of mix right bit of Mi so Matt real
35:57 quick so we don’t go first off great
35:60 beautiful story so let let’s snapshot to
35:02 today because I think in our intro call
35:04 you were talking about you’re somehow
35:05 attached to nine companies today yeah so
35:08 walk us through one that once you had
35:09 that cash in the bank right what what
35:11 did you progress from there so my wife’s
35:14 a big real estate person so uh we have
35:17 several uh real estate in uh entities
35:20 you know industrial
35:22 commercial uh vacation rental kind of
35:24 things we did residential for a while so
35:27 some of our entities
35:28 relate to that uh more recently uh We’ve
36:32 we got into the car wash business with
36:34 my daughter and her son my her husband
36:37 my son-in-law and so uh in like 12
36:40 months we bought three three car washes
36:43 and never had car wash
36:44 before those are doing well I continue
36:48 to do uh this uh Consulting in the area
36:53 the legal Consulting Litigation
36:55 Consulting forensic data analysis kind
36:58 of stuff so that’s kind of just a me
36:00 company but kind of the big thing that
36:03 we did uh three years ago now is after
36:06 we sold that business Don was like okay
36:09 I’d kind of like to have something on my
36:11 own uh she has a big heart for a blue
36:13 collar workers because she grew up in
36:16 you know service Industries hotels uh
36:18 restaurants that kind of a thing and so
36:21 three years ago we bought a a welding
36:23 business here in in Denver and so nice
36:27 uh no experience in the industry but it
36:29 was kind of the buy then build kind of
37:32 mentality took about a a 203 25y old
37:37 business with a you know operator owner
37:40 and a couple welders and we’ve turned it
37:42 into we’ve um well in our in year two we
37:46 had quadrupled the revenue uh quadrupled
37:50 our staff and have now I think one of
37:53 the Premier welding uh shops here in in
37:56 Colorado uh not that it’s all Rosy you
37:59 know there’s definitely ups and
37:01 downs UPS down any business you have ups
37:04 and downs yeah it’s easy to see the
37:06 finsh product trust me man there’s a
37:07 grind to get there every time yeah
37:09 exactly and part of the reason I wanted
37:11 to do that and support Dawn in that is
37:14 uh kind of my primary uh business or
37:17 Focus right now is that that methodology
37:21 that helped the business we talked about
37:22 that we exited from the author came back
37:24 to me and said hey man I see you know
37:27 you really had a home run with this this
38:31 never been able to monetize it would you
38:33 want to go in with me and help me try to
38:36 figure that out and I said sure you know
38:39 we so we started a new business and in
38:42 that first year you know first year
38:44 startups it it’s hard right it’s
38:47 stressful you know and he he was an
38:50 older gentleman and kind of at the end
38:52 of the first year he said you know Matt
38:54 it’s been fun but I I just don’t have
38:58 the temperament to do this at my age and
38:01 so I ended up acquiring all of his
38:03 research in IP and that’s what the Rew
38:07 wild Group which is uh has built this
38:09 framework we’ve taken kind of the
38:11 Nuggets that the inventor came up with
38:13 and build a system so you could think of
38:15 it like an EOS if you know of EOS it’s a
38:18 good reference point it’s it’s not a
38:21 one-size fitall it’s based on the stages
38:23 of growth and it’s very robust and and
38:26 customized to where the business is but
38:28 that’s what I’ve built over the past
39:30 three years with the team and now we’ve
39:32 got 50 uh Consultants around the world
39:36 independent Consultants who have been
39:37 certified in our methodology and they
39:39 work with you know businesses in their
39:41 their local areas uh and we’re Global so
39:44 we’re on six continents so that’s pretty
39:46 cool so part of the reason I wanted to
39:49 buy the the welding business is because
39:51 I it’s like okay I have this growth
39:53 methodology do I believe in it you know
39:55 shouldn’t I be able to use it make some
39:57 money off of it so that’s really what
39:00 it’s been from my standpoint is let’s
39:02 actually use it uh in our own business
39:06 now that we’ve kind of flushed out this
39:08 whole system and uh you know reap the
39:11 rewards of that so it’s been very
39:13 powerful and being able to take this you
39:15 know very small you know threepers
39:17 company to you know we had reached a top
39:21 of about 20 people we’re we we’re pulled
39:23 back now we’re about in that eight or 10
39:25 but I know I’m in stage one I know when
39:27 I go to stage two I know the rules that
39:29 I have to follow I need to know the
40:31 elements and structures I need to have
40:33 in place at this point um I’m fascinated
40:36 it’s great I’m gonna first I’m gonna get
40:38 that book but then I want to talk with
40:39 you offline about more about re wild
40:41 because it sounds like it’s got a great
40:42 awesome very nice and really quick so
40:45 car washes welding and essentially
40:48 coaching right which of the three
40:49 businesses are you the most excited
40:50 about right now well you know they’re
40:52 really different I’m uh I’m not too
40:55 involved in the operations of the car
40:57 washes but you know last Wednesday we
40:60 had to go and service the car wash so
40:01 you got to do what you got to do right
40:03 so um the the car washes are fun just
40:06 because it’s so different you know it’s
40:07 a a b Toc and uh it’s cash based a lot
40:11 of it’s cash so you’re counting dollar
40:13 bills and coins you know it’s just so
40:15 different from technology right so
40:17 physical in nature um so I don’t spend a
40:20 whole lot of time on the car washes um
40:23 we we want to continue to grow our
40:25 portfolio the goal is to get to maybe
40:27 six car washes here in the Denver area
40:30 but uh the two that take up most of my
41:32 time are the the welding business where
41:34 I’m actively involved in day-to-day um
41:36 and that’s really fun again because it’s
41:38 blue collar I mean our guys work so hard
41:42 doing such hard work uh we pay them well
41:45 uh but it it’s just it’s just different
41:49 right you know I hear about moaning
41:51 about you know a hard day at the office
41:53 and I’m like you know nothing these guys
41:55 are on the job at 5:30 in the morning
41:57 morning they are catching fire on a
41:59 regular basis you know uh you know if
41:02 they don’t wear this this mask they’re
41:03 going to be blind uh you know they’re
41:05 carry everything they touch is heavy the
41:08 wrenches you know every tool is just
41:10 heavy um and they’re working 12h hour
41:13 days in the elements it’s like yeah you
41:16 guys know what know exactly same kind of
41:18 thing in a chrome plating you know or
41:20 chrome plating company yeah so that’s
41:24 that’s exciting that’s it’s just so
41:26 tangible and you get to see what you
41:29 what you’ve built right you are building
42:31 physical things and so that’s exciting
42:34 um and then the Rew wild group is kind
42:36 of my those two really comprise most of
42:38 it I like re wild group because we build
42:41 in a way that’s very scalable and so now
42:44 it’s just a matter of we’ve got the
42:46 system in the last 36 months we’ve
42:48 published 18 books uh to really codify
42:51 the methodology uh so we our product is
42:55 ready and so now it’s just putting more
42:58 things through it and our our model is
42:60 very scalable and very high margins we
42:02 just got to get more more uh more volume
42:04 through it so we’re excited about and
42:06 what’s that website why don’t you tell
42:07 us a little quick about the re and we’ll
42:09 put in the show notes listen yeah so
42:11 it’s just Rew group so our so like
42:14 you’re rewilding rewig group.com and uh
42:19 we have information there for business
42:20 owners and also independent Consultants
42:23 what we call advisors if they want to
42:25 add a new tool set to what they provide
42:28 to small midsize businesses they can
43:30 learn it kind of like again like an EOS
43:33 implementer U we have certified
43:35 organizational Rew Wilding advisers
43:38 awesome we’ll have to get you back on
43:40 another episode to maybe dive into the
43:41 welding business and how that went and
43:43 then same thing with r wild and just
43:44 talk through those so I mean it also be
43:47 great you know you come on the 26th in
43:49 Chicago when we’re there a lot of our
43:51 listeners a lot of the people could be
43:53 use great syst yeah that sounds like a
43:54 great event I love it awesome so we’re
43:57 GNA jump into our rocket round Matt you
43:59 ready gonna ask you some questions here
43:01 go for it all right first question what
43:03 do you like to do in your free time and
43:05 the answer couldnot be climbing
43:06 mountains because we already talked
43:07 about that
43:08 one throw you off game a little bit
43:11 there Don would say I love to and I and
43:14 she’s accurate I I like to be uh do
43:17 landscaping yard work we’ve got a a big
43:20 yard like two and a half acres and and
43:24 uh it’s just something about and I think
43:26 maybe it goes to my childhood you know
43:28 growing up in Iowa you know we were
44:30 outside all the time I had my first
44:32 small business was mowing yards so just
44:34 being out there doing your yard work has
44:37 always been stuff too my first business
44:39 same thing was called kid Pro we were
44:41 eighth graders cutting uh Lawns okay but
44:44 uh for me it’s just so therapeutic being
44:47 out in in uh in the yard and just taking
44:50 care of it I you know I’m only one of a
44:53 few in our our neighborhood that
44:55 actually takes care of their own yard so
44:57 it’s uh you know out there on the mower
44:59 or always you know pruning stuff or you
44:02 know whatever so that’s that’s that’s
44:04 really it works in Denver where you have
44:06 like three months to do that right you
44:08 don’t have mosquito the other side of
44:10 the spectrum I used to do it and then i’
44:12 become inside and i’ got like a hundred
44:14 bites on me and I’m like all right sweat
44:16 you know unless it’s like the three
44:17 months that we can’t do it as much here
44:19 yeah no you’re right we it’s an ideal uh
44:22 environment because we get the fall and
44:24 the spring and the winter so there’s a
44:26 lot of time I gorgeous cool all right
44:29 next question so what’s been your most
45:31 memorable moment in your business
45:33 Journey
45:37 wow
45:39 um I I think the most most pivotable had
45:44 had to be getting that
45:46 signed uh I don’t know letter of intent
45:49 or whatever the agreement was at the
45:51 point is of exiting our business it was
45:54 so pivotal it was hard we had fallen
45:56 back in love with with our business and
45:59 so it was really a weird dynamic it was
45:01 like wow we were we were trying to do
45:03 this but now we’re getting this
45:04 opportunity and I don’t know if I want
45:06 to sell but it was the right decision
45:08 for us you regret it now uh no no
45:12 regrets had no regrets at all um and in
45:16 part of
45:17 it to be honest there was a financial
45:21 benefit to that that just open up new
45:23 opportunities for us you know and you
45:26 know instead of yeah car washes right we
45:29 we could do so many other things that we
46:31 never could have done had we not exited
46:33 that business and to be honest you know
46:35 15 years for me 15 years doing something
46:38 that I was kind of at the end I was like
46:41 I can go do other things I want to
46:43 experience other things so I think that
46:45 was pivotal it gave us the resources to
46:47 go do other things and it freed us up
46:50 from doing that one thing to now being
46:52 able to do multiple things all right
46:54 fair enough then last question what’s
46:56 your favorite tool or
46:59 resource
46:02 well for me I mean the pivotal one and
46:05 it is a bit self-serving but this road
46:07 map this uh this organizational reing
46:10 system has been the most impactful to me
46:14 um but I would say on top of that
46:16 there’s been a couple books that have
46:18 been very important to me uh B toell was
46:22 a big book for me to help me understand
46:25 I ran I read that book kind of in that
46:27 year 12 as well I listened to that
46:28 podcast it’s a good one yeah and then uh
47:32 uh small Giants was pivotal in really
47:36 getting our business and kind of seeing
47:37 the business of we want to grow but
47:39 we’re not growing just to grow we’re
47:40 growing because we want to just be great
47:43 uh uh so that was an important one um
47:47 and then the navigating the growth curve
47:49 was kind of my introduction to that road
47:51 map those three books books have been
47:53 kind of important things for me tools I
47:55 would say I’m I’m good at reading
47:58 something and then being able to take
47:01 the high points and going and doing
47:03 something with it so those books have
47:04 been good tools for me man I’m Avid man
47:07 I’ve got audible cranking I’ve got a
47:09 book by the desk I may not read the
47:11 whole thing immediately but I read a
47:12 chapter and I’m like ah you know that is
47:15 great and then you know I go iterate on
47:17 it and think about all these things and
47:19 I’m I’m an Avid Reader yeah my my Ru of
47:22 thumb is if I get one or two things out
47:24 of a book that actually impact me that’s
47:26 been a good book and absolutely you have
47:29 to be openminded and know that you don’t
48:30 know the things that you don’t know so
48:32 yeah yeah exactly well Matt I mean Super
48:35 valuable episode I think lots of nuggets
48:38 interesting kind of golden nuggets
48:39 what’s uh how can someone get a hold of
48:40 you um the best way would be through Rew
48:43 group.com there’s a contact us page but
48:45 you can also uh find me on LinkedIn uh
48:49 and via email M for Matthew mle Pol
48:54 rewig group.com any of those ways I’d
48:56 welcome the opportunity to interact with
48:58 people who are business owners looking
48:00 to buy looking to sell you know would
48:03 welcome the opportunity to share what
48:05 I’ve learn see if that adds value to
48:06 them perfect we’ll call it a wrap then
48:09 Matt thank you very much really
48:10 appreciate time okay great really
48:12 appreciate the
48:14 opportunity thank you for listening to
48:15 the m&a Launchpad podcast if you’ve
48:17 enjoyed today’s podcast and would like
48:19 to support us please leave us a rating
48:21 and a review after you listen I’m Casey
48:22 mchu and I look forward to talking with
48:24 you next week