In this episode of the M&A Launchpad Podcast, hosts Feras Moussa and Casey Minshew welcome special guest Kevin McArdle, co-founder and CEO of Big Band Software. Kevin Shares his incredible journey from CP of Sales at Cerner to acquiring and operating over 50 SaaS companies.
After a stint teaching high school math, Kevin landed his first tech job at a booming global software company. His journey to VP was a masterclass in scaling a successful tech business and led him to start and run multiple
companies of his own. After realizing that wealth was created as a business owner, he started Big Band, where they apply Fortune 100 principals to small companies on their next leg of growth.
Kevin discusses the strategies that he employs to help the current team become more efficient in their day-to-day work. If you are an aspiring entrepreneur or someone interested in the SaaS industry, this episode is packed with invaluable insights on buying and managing a software business.
In this podcast episode, we discuss:
- What is SaaS?
- The Decentralization Strategy
- Growing a Tech Business
- Acquisitions in the Software Industry
You can connect with Kevin McArdle by X (Twitter) or by website: Big Band Software / @kevin_mcardle
Additional Resources:
- Access our archive of video interviews on YouTube
- Checkout our upcoming Conference – https://malaunchpad.com/
- Get in touch with show hosts Casey Minshew and Feras Moussa at – info@equitylaunchpad.com
- Looking to invest in M&A opportunities or partner with an advisor to acquire, scale or sell your business? Visit Equity Launchpad
Transcript
00:00 on today’s episode we interviewed Kevin
00:03 McArdle who is the co-founder and CEO of
00:05 big band software on this episode we
00:07 focused on really SAS businesses and how
00:09 it looks like to acquire business how to
00:11 operate those businesses and really you
00:13 know what do you consider whenever
00:14 you’re looking at buying those
00:15 businesses Kevin was formerly a VP of
00:17 sales at Cerner and kind of grew up in
00:19 that sales Tech world and went on and
00:21 has bought over 50 companies so Casey
00:22 what would some your takeaways from this
00:23 one man it was a very good interview and
00:25 I think for the person you know we we
00:27 talked to so many entrepreneurs that are
00:29 you know they want to their first
01:30 company but they’re always thinking
01:32 about their fifth right and they haven’t
01:34 even got through their first but I would
01:35 say that to be able to be able to to
01:37 hear somebody that has had a vision to
01:40 not only buy a company but then to go
01:42 out and buy 50 and to know that hey he’s
01:44 just a normal guy and uh really loves
01:47 what he does understands the space he
01:50 lets us all have a great vision for what
01:52 we’re doing here why we’re doing
01:53 acquisition entrepreneurship and and
01:54 where can we go as we continue this
01:57 journey yeah and for me you know there’s
01:58 a lot of hype with software and S
01:00 specifically and you know what I liked
01:02 about this one is just focusing on the
01:05 core fundamentals of business right
01:07 which is profitability we’re not hey
01:09 we’re going to go raise $100 million
01:10 because we’re burning 200 million a year
01:12 and we’re hoping in 15 years to get to
01:14 profitability no we’re looking at good
01:17 healthy businesses today that you know
01:19 that can be acquired and really scale
01:21 them out and really some of the things
01:22 to think about so I think I love the
01:24 model he has going on I think it’s a
01:25 great model and a right way to do
01:26 business and I think there are just so
01:28 many of these Niche businesses right and
01:29 a lot of these people that we talk to
02:31 you know some of our listeners that are
02:32 looking at acquiring a business right
02:34 everybody’s fixated on software or
02:37 Revenue businesses but I think the more
02:38 important thing to fixate on is
02:40 profitability and so I think lots of
02:42 interesting information in this episode
02:43 just really focusing on that yeah buying
02:45 and holding and creating wealth that’s
02:47 another thing to think about and that
02:48 private Equity model is usually churning
02:50 buying fixing up and selling so again it
02:53 goes back to the thesis of what you’re
02:54 ultimately trying to to to solve but
02:56 fantastic interview and uh thoroughly
02:58 enjoyed meeting with Kevin yeah so if in
02:00 the tech space you’re looking at buying
02:01 and business software business
02:02 definitely one to listen to let’s get
02:04 into
02:07 it all right on today’s episode we have
02:10 Kevin McArdle Kevin welcome to the show
02:12 thanks F good to be with you oh nice to
02:15 have you so SAS company something a
02:17 little bit near and dear to my heart
02:19 right for those listeners that know you
02:20 know I came from that Tech World worked
02:21 at Microsoft and had a software company
02:23 and right now we’re not focused on
02:24 software company acquisition so really
02:26 excited to kind of learn a little bit
02:28 more about what you guys have been
02:29 working on and kind of how it looks and
03:31 so Kevin for those listeners right maybe
03:33 just a quick overview right what is SAS
03:36 what do you you know how do you look at
03:38 it and what should a buyer kind of think
03:40 about whenever they think about SAS yeah
03:43 so SAS just stands for software as a
03:45 service um that’s how almost all
03:47 software in the world now is is deployed
03:49 it’s more of a business model than a
03:51 than a technical thing so um for
03:53 listeners that aren’t familiar with it
03:55 you could think of SAS and software as
03:58 interchangeable and and synonymous
03:01 yeah fair enough no I think it software
03:03 used to be package software where SAS
03:05 was the web ified version and now it’s
03:07 all kind of you know package software
03:09 just not a thing anymore yeah right you
03:11 used to have to yeah download a package
03:13 or put a CD ROM in a computer and then
03:16 you you pay a license for that and then
03:18 usually pay maintenance a smaller amount
03:20 month over month and you know with you
03:23 know new tooling and um you know
03:26 availability the internet now all
03:27 software is more of a month by Monon pay
03:29 as you go type of model um and so that’s
04:33 why it’s now called software as a
04:34 service but for for you know listeners
04:36 you use software every day so you you
04:39 know what software is and we’re just
04:41 focused on acquiring those types of
04:42 businesses that are a little bit harder
04:43 to see out in the world because they
04:45 don’t have uh real estate Footprints or
04:48 manufacturing you know and then that’s
04:51 what I loved about kind of what we
04:52 talked about so maybe you know let’s get
04:53 into it right ultimately how did you get
04:55 into space and what is it you like about
04:57 it right yeah so I um
04:00 I early in my career I sort of stumbled
04:02 into a job at a software company called
04:04 Cerner in Kansas City where I’m from and
04:07 they made electronic medical records for
04:09 hospitals and health Turner very well
04:11 and I’ll tell you why later okay cool um
04:14 and so I started as an entry-level sales
04:16 trainee and you know candidly I just
04:18 needed a job and that was the one that
04:20 was there I had a friend of a friend who
04:21 worked there and so I jumped at it and
04:24 thinking I’ll do this for a little while
04:26 until I figure out what I want to do and
04:29 I just fell in love with the business
05:31 and the the challenges of software and
05:34 selling and it was a very
05:35 entrepreneurial and fast growing company
05:38 and so 15 years later all of a sudden I
05:41 find myself you know a vice president of
05:43 the company and you know having like a
05:46 software career which I had never really
05:48 intended nor you know planned you didn’t
05:51 study that in college and so um in a way
05:54 it’s sort of all I know but it’s also
05:56 something I love because there’s no
05:58 there’s no constraints in the software
05:59 world you can build just about anything
05:02 um it’s in many ways a simpler business
05:05 than something that’s got raw materials
05:07 and you know a process and then an
05:09 output um you know there no inventory
05:12 scales indefinitely so um sort of
05:15 stumbled into it and also just love it
05:18 how do you know sir also I previously
05:20 worked at a company called lithium which
05:23 turned into coros which provided
05:24 Community software and Cerner was one of
05:26 the big clients so oh cool yeah that was
05:29 us very cool yeah yeah small so talking
06:31 about Kevin on your on your journey here
06:33 so it looks like so you you you worked
06:36 and then you decided to go out and
06:37 Venture on your own so how how did that
06:40 become what was it an idea that came
06:42 across you was it a company you bought
06:43 what what what all kind of came in that
06:46 well as I was as I was at cner you know
06:48 so I was I was a math and secondary Ed
06:49 major in college I thought I was going
06:51 to be high school math teacher I went
06:52 and did that for a year and didn’t love
06:54 it and so that’s why I started thinking
06:55 okay what am I going to do with my life
06:57 and that’s where I found Cerner and as I
06:59 was growing in my career I realized I’m
06:02 doing work that I don’t really fully
06:05 understand because I didn’t study it so
06:06 I went back and got a MBA nights and
06:09 weekends just to tune up my knowledge of
06:11 marketing Finance accounting all the
06:13 things that I needed to do my job and
06:16 while in those classes you know you do a
06:18 lot of case studies and you study
06:20 businesses and I kind of figured out all
06:23 these businesses were started by normal
06:26 humans and you know the ones that work
06:29 out which they don’t work out but if
07:30 you’re reading a case study about a
07:32 business at business school the person
07:34 who started it probably made a lot of
07:36 money right and so I knew kind of the
07:38 economics of cner and it’s a good
07:41 company that treats people well and I
07:42 was a owner in terms of stock options
07:44 but I wasn’t making the real wealth the
07:46 real wealth was being made by the three
07:48 co-founders who started it in the 80s
07:50 and so back to your question Casey I had
07:53 always had this dream of owning my own
07:55 business or starting a business but I
07:57 didn’t know what that was going to be uh
07:60 you know later I collided with a guy who
07:02 ended up later being my business partner
07:04 and his idea was let’s just go buy other
07:07 people’s businesses that are already
07:08 successful so there’s a lower chance of
07:11 failure and so that CAU kind of got we
07:14 we joined forces pulled some money
07:15 bought some businesses and that got me
07:18 down this path of both entrepreneurship
07:20 and Acquisitions in a space that growing
07:24 up in my Corporate America World I
07:25 didn’t even know that that was the thing
07:27 yeah well really quick because that’s an
07:28 important point where were you like how
08:30 did you meet this partner were you going
08:32 to a meet up you know what what gave you
08:34 that first inkling of like there’s a
08:36 there’s a big world out there that’s
08:37 outside of kind of the you know the
08:39 corporate job world that you you you
08:40 were accustomed
08:41 to yeah it was sort of dumb luck um uh I
08:46 our kids played at the same soccer club
08:47 and our wives were friends and I knew he
08:49 was an entrepreneur so um you know it I
08:53 I wasn’t intentional about and I think
08:56 if I were to give advice to my younger
08:57 self who was dreaming of owning a
08:59 business
08:01 um you know finishing business school I
08:03 would have said go find people that do
08:05 that go find people that you know run
08:07 businesses own businesses think
08:09 entrepreneurs um because I was just sort
08:11 of in my Corporate America bubble and
08:14 you know both fortunate to collide with
08:16 this person and we went into business
08:18 together unfortunately that Business
08:20 Partnership did not work out and so um
08:24 through but you know over the course of
08:25 seven years uh he was more of a
08:28 financial investor and that was it I was
09:30 the operator um and we ended up
09:33 acquiring my company ended up acquiring
09:35 45 businesses in seven years so it was
09:38 high volume learned a lot made a lot of
09:40 mistakes and ended up deciding that I
09:43 needed to part ways with the old
09:44 business partner and that’s where I um
09:46 you know came to start big band software
09:49 with all those Lessons Learned of kind
09:51 of what worked and what didn’t in the in
09:53 the previous business and with more
09:55 intention about who do I want to be in
09:57 business with what do I want the
09:58 strategy to be what’s a bigger better
09:01 version of what I’ve already done all
09:03 right so there was a lot to unpack in
09:04 that so first thing right it sounds like
09:06 it was kind of dumb luck right soccer
09:08 team started a conversation it sounded
09:10 like your partner had the knowledge on
09:13 kind of a little bit of maybe knowledge
09:14 or exposure onto m&a you have the
09:16 knowledge on the tech side of things
09:17 right you know how Tech works you know
09:19 how SAS works you even know how you know
09:21 just corporate Sals work in that world
09:23 right and so that’s kind of where you
09:25 guys came together you made the leap of
09:27 faith and just left cerer and kind of
09:29 went all in or was there a little bit of
10:30 a trickle up to kind of get going maybe
10:33 first question
10:35 then yeah it was pretty Allin I mean I
10:38 you know spent some time to think about
10:39 it and we hashed you know so like the
10:41 original idea was like let’s just buy
10:42 profitable businesses the end right and
10:45 then I was like okay well what kind of
10:47 prices would we pay for these things
10:48 what do these businesses look like how
10:50 much money are we working with etc etc
10:52 and so probably took three to six months
10:55 and um of talking with this new new
10:58 partner talking with my wife is this the
10:00 right thing to do because you know as
10:02 you know leaving a cushy corporate job
10:04 with a nice salary and benefits is a a
10:08 big left Microsoft so I know exactly
10:10 what you’re saying yeah yeah I got the
10:12 same questions like what are you doing
10:14 this is crazy um but unfortunately we
10:17 had lived below our means for a long
10:20 time and we built up a nice cushion and
10:22 I had you know options that I could
10:24 exercise so financially I knew I’d be
10:26 fine and I also knew like I I thought of
10:30 like worst case scenario if if I do this
11:32 and it doesn’t work out for whatever
11:34 reason I’ll call my friends at Cerner
11:36 and they’re going to hire me back or
11:37 I’ll call XYZ other company and based on
11:40 my experience I won’t have a hard time
11:42 getting a job and so it was really just
11:44 sort of like a way the risk reward and
11:47 ended up taking the leap quit the job
11:49 and started buying companies got it so
11:52 you you went all in once you did and so
11:54 you guys started buying maybe the next
11:56 two questions how were you you know kind
11:59 of how are you financing it right how
11:01 are you getting the equity and you know
11:02 basically across the 45 companies what
11:05 was the average maybe deal size and the
11:07 average revenue per company right to
11:08 kind of give listeners just something to
11:10 think about right what yeah yeah that’s
11:12 fair so um so originally it was me and a
11:16 and a a financial partner and we brought
11:19 in a few other people so very closely
11:21 held and we bought you know let’s say 20
11:24 25 businesses and then eventually we
11:26 raised a fund from 67 individuals and
12:30 institutions so just kind of grew into a
12:33 more proper fund model and we were
12:36 acquiring B so the first business we
12:38 bought was low six figures so small
12:40 small thing and then the biggest check
12:42 we wrote in that company was uh 7
12:45 million so kind of grew over time but
12:47 still like relatively small high volume
12:51 of transactions we were doing not doing
12:53 the math in my head but about closing
12:55 about once every two months and who ran
12:58 that acquisition process was that was
12:59 that your partner was that or did you
12:01 also run that Partners were always sort
12:03 of on the sidelines um I I did
12:06 everything at the early stages and up
12:08 until the last two years I was always
12:10 driving Acquisitions and then I brought
12:12 on uh guy to be head of Acquisitions
12:15 just to run the funnel and you know
12:17 process the volume and like help make
12:19 decisions on valuation you know pricing
12:22 etc
12:27 etc leadership team yeah we always talk
13:30 about thesis right knowing exactly what
13:32 vertical like how you’re going to do it
13:34 in those pieces so you guys must have
13:36 had a very kind of in the software space
13:39 you you must have known like hey here
13:40 are the here are the type of companies
13:42 we’re looking for these are the type of
13:44 products right was it any or were you
13:47 somewhat agnostic in in what type of
13:49 sash you were buying well that maybe a
13:51 good segue to focus a little bit more on
13:53 big band so one of the Lessons Learned
13:55 was we were we were pretty Broad in our
13:58 thesis we were buying
13:00 profitable internet-based businesses so
13:04 some of the early ones we had a
13:05 membership site we had a subscription
13:08 box thing and then we slowly got into
13:10 more software businesses and so one of
13:12 the lessons learned that I’m doing
13:14 better the second time is a much tighter
13:17 thesis on the types of businesses that
13:18 we want to buy um the profile of those
13:21 businesses what are the hard NOS that we
13:23 stay away from so what we’re focused on
13:26 now is businessto business software
13:30 um 2 to 10 million in annual recurring
14:33 Revenue so buying bigger businesses than
14:35 I was before we want them to be
14:37 profitable so if somebody’s burning cash
14:39 or Venture back they’re probably a no
14:42 and we’re fairly industry agnostic but
14:45 we want businesses that solve real
14:47 problems for real businesses uh that are
14:49 enduring that we can hopefully own for
14:52 decades because we have permanent
14:54 Capital we don’t have a mandate to sell
14:57 these businesses after we own them we
14:59 can talk about more more about why
14:01 that’s the model if you want but like so
14:03 uh I’ve seen businesses that help you
14:05 get more Instagram followers I’m not
14:08 interested in that because I don’t know
14:10 what’s going to replace Instagram but
14:11 something will at some point so that’s
14:13 not probably to be around in 10 years
14:14 you know what I mean or you know so
14:16 things there are certain industries that
14:18 we are totally not interested in but
14:20 anything that’s B2B and solves real
14:22 problems we are interested in that no
14:24 that’s a nice I mean nice tight thesis I
14:26 think we would probably have something
14:27 similar too so someone know if a
14:29 listener has one of those businesses
15:31 definitely reach out to Kevin and so you
15:33 know I guess did you share the pieces
15:35 because previously those 45 companies
15:38 you’re kind of running them as 45
15:39 different companies right and that’s you
15:41 know that’s that’s just a management
15:42 nightmare versus you know how do you
15:44 effectively grow them and then now
15:45 you’re really focused on you know fewer
15:48 companies deeper in probably deeper
15:52 level of management and with probably
15:54 some sort of kind of roll up strategy as
15:56 well if it makes sense is that more of
15:58 kind of where you guys are thinking now
15:60 uh yeah so one of the one of the things
15:01 that I’m doing different this time is we
15:03 you know because we’re buying smaller
15:04 companies they didn’t have proper
15:06 leadership teams you know it was often a
15:08 solo founder doing everything or they
15:09 might have a team of one or two people
15:12 so we’d replace the founder with a a
15:13 general manager product manager um and
15:17 so we had centralized HR Finance
15:19 accounting marketing Tech Team Etc and
15:22 that worked but it didn’t scale really
15:24 well um so and I as I started studying
15:27 like who are the other people out there
15:29 in the world that do something like what
16:31 I’m doing um whether it’s sort of like
16:34 brick and mortar hold Coes that that you
16:36 guys understand or real estate
16:38 conglomerates or software like the the
16:41 biggest and best example of a software
16:43 holding company is constellation
16:44 software uh rer Technologies is another
16:47 one that your listeners might have heard
16:49 Equity Group oh yeah yeah so not to go
16:53 back to the serer thing but whenever I
16:54 was at coros right it was originally
16:56 lithium got bought by Vista you know
16:59 that’s where kind of came into coral and
16:60 got combined with another company uh
16:02 spread fast and so I got to see kind of
16:04 how you know how they did what they did
16:06 right and people yeah so I’m a I’m a
16:09 huge fan of Vista and Robert Smith Their
16:11 CEO but the difference and so I studied
16:14 some of what they do in terms of like
16:16 improving companies and they talk about
16:18 their 110 standard operating procedures
16:20 that every company is supposed to follow
16:21 and so I like that model but what’s
16:23 different they’re a traditional private
16:25 Equity Fund they buy something they try
16:28 to optimize it for four or five years
16:29 and then they sell it I was more
17:31 interested in studying the great
17:33 companies that buy and hold for a long
17:35 term and that’s where constellation
17:37 famously they own it’s not public but
17:39 they the speculation is that they own
17:41 500 companies at this point and they’ve
17:44 only sold one so they figured out a
17:47 model of like okay how do you manage all
17:49 of that and all of those moving Parts
17:51 give them the right autonomy but have it
17:54 you know there’s something about being a
17:55 consolation company and what I learned
17:57 from studying all these different groups
17:58 is that
17:59 decentralization is how you can scale
17:01 very big and still manage all of it and
17:04 so what we’re doing at big band is we
17:07 buy a company if the founder wants to
17:09 move on to something else we will put a
17:11 CEO in place and the companies are big
17:13 enough to Warrant a proper CEO and we
17:16 give that person the tools the guidance
17:19 the right incentives to grow the
17:20 business and the autonomy to make
17:23 decisions and grow the business the way
17:25 that they believe it should be grown and
17:27 we then act as a me and my partners Act
17:29 as a very supportive and engaged board
18:32 of directors uh so that means helping
18:35 with strategy that means helping if they
18:37 need a certain uh role to add to the
18:40 leadership team we’ll engage our Network
18:42 and help them find that role but what we
18:43 don’t do is centralize everything and
18:46 have them go through us to make
18:48 decisions to grow the business because
18:49 that will just hold them back eventually
18:52 yeah and and kind of dig a Little Deeper
18:53 so like you know we we’ve had that
18:55 conversation internally right about
18:57 centralizing all these different
18:58 functions so those businesses have this
18:00 backend support right and and and
18:03 there’s been very successful companies
18:04 that do that typically more of your
18:06 private equities right but as you’re
18:08 building this holdco strategy right
18:11 where you’re building your business you
18:13 found that each of those companies kind
18:15 of having their own Services all of
18:18 their pieces allows that business what
18:20 to scale faster or to make what what is
18:23 that decision point for you scale faster
18:25 make better decisions have the decision
18:27 making closer to the problems and again
18:29 so it’s based on my experience of
19:31 studying the greates right um and so
19:33 there’s always a CA and you know I’m I’m
19:36 not saying I’m right like we’ll see we
19:37 can do this podcast again in five years
19:39 and see if I’m still on the
19:40 decentralization bandwagon but I’ll give
19:43 you a couple reasons why I believe
19:45 because because there’s always a really
19:46 good argument to be made like okay we’ve
19:48 got you know once you guys will have
19:50 four portfolio companies they all need
19:52 some help in let’s say marketing right
19:56 and they can’t all hire a high level
19:58 marketing person but you can one as a
19:59 centralized resource to help all of them
19:02 it’s a totally logical argument and a
19:04 lot of people do it that way in my
19:06 experience where that has caused
19:08 challenges is if I have company a that
19:11 needs a marketing person and Company B
19:13 needs a marketing person it could be
19:15 they’re fighting over the same precious
19:16 resource and neither one of them is
19:18 getting enough
19:19 attention another challenge is company a
19:22 might need different marketing skills
19:23 than Company B and if I’ve got one
19:26 Central resource I’m going to sort of
19:28 put a square pen in a round hole for one
19:30 or both of them that’s another challenge
20:32 and another challenge I’ve seen is if
20:34 company a wants a marketing person but
20:37 they don’t think the centralized
20:38 resource is the best person in the world
20:40 for what they want and they want to go
20:41 outside to get bring in their own their
20:43 own folks so a third party company yeah
20:47 right so in decentralizing we say Okay
20:50 CEO you’ve got a budget you’ve got a
20:52 marketing need we can introduce you to
20:54 all the smart marketing people we know
20:55 and Lord knows I know a lot of them or
20:58 if you’ve got somebody want to work with
20:60 that’s fine but you are accountable for
20:02 the results that we’ve agreed are
20:04 achievable for this business and if you
20:05 want to so you have to be the one it’s
20:08 just a greater level accountability for
20:10 the CEOs which they like because they
20:12 get to really run their business and
20:14 they’re not being forced to use a
20:15 centralized resource that they may or
20:17 may not I totally agree you know I think
20:19 I’m more of the decentralization
20:21 bandwagon right casy when we’re like
20:23 whenever we’re talking about
20:24 centralization right and see tell me if
20:26 you disagree with this Casey we keep the
20:29 comp is independent right but they’re
21:31 centralized resources that can help
21:33 guide that’s really how we look at it so
21:35 marketing you know us it’s sales
21:36 marketing HR it accounting illegal those
21:38 are the six that we really think about
21:39 and so for example the company we bought
21:41 it has its own person running HR they
21:43 synced with kind of a centralized person
21:45 hey here’s some tips tricks you know and
21:47 we could try to get consolidation we’re
21:49 getting better pricing but really that
21:51 person is deep and only thinking about
21:54 their company it’s almost like we have
21:55 like a dotted line reporting out to a
21:57 centralized thing but it’s really they
21:58 more more to guide than it is there to
21:01 make the decision right the person at
21:02 the company level is making that
21:03 decision what’s best for that company
21:05 with some influence and then person
21:07 running the company right you know in
21:09 our case like Brad he’s he’s making his
21:10 own decisions right he’s not coming back
21:12 every single decision because it moves
21:14 too slow that way right and so only key
21:16 things so I think in our model really
21:19 we’re really a decentralized model with
21:21 some dotted line access to people that
21:25 can have the more holistic view that
21:27 makes sense well I I you know the the
21:29 thing is is it’s like uh as you get into
22:32 it right because now you know we we’ve
22:34 made our first acquisition as of last
22:36 year today is our anniversary uh it’s
22:38 gone very well and so it you know and it
22:40 was a sizable enough company right so
22:42 it’s a $20 million acquisition you know
22:44 it’s got a lot of things that we’re
22:45 figuring out it’s not you know it’s it’s
22:47 all those pieces so we’re actually kind
22:49 of in that same position where you might
22:51 have been a year or two ago where you’re
22:52 like Hey we’re now going to go out and
22:54 acquire some more and so we’re really
22:56 this is kind of very helpful and it’s
22:57 it’s really nice to talk through those
22:59 ideas of how you’ve done it because I
22:01 think we’re really in that mindset of
22:02 more of that Brookshire haway mentality
22:04 like what you’re talking about right
22:05 it’s the buy hold build that wealth and
22:08 and and be that company that’s not like
22:10 hey we have to exit every five to seven
22:12 years to get where we want to go so I
22:14 really like decentralized in empowering
22:17 that CEO yep I don’t I don’t think it’s
22:19 a black and white issue right so like
22:22 you guys need to make the decision that
22:23 makes sense for you the dotted line
22:25 thing I think resonates with me and like
22:27 to to explain even more about what we do
23:30 uh so there there are me and two
23:33 partners at the holding company level
23:34 and we have a young lady that joined us
23:36 as an analyst and I want to keep that
23:37 holding company as small as possible
23:39 yeah I love it that’s kind of s to hear
23:42 right so then we have the rest of the
23:45 parent company that just provides
23:46 resources for like those other
23:47 disciplines like we have in house
23:48 counsel that can help give you know
23:50 counsil advice for any company that
23:52 needs it those kind of things so yeah
23:53 and so the the difference in what I
23:55 Envision and what we’re creating there’s
23:57 other people doing similar to what we do
23:60 they’re acquiring software businesses
23:01 and you look at their website and
23:03 there’s like 20 Executives and there’s
23:06 the engineering person the product
23:07 person the legal the HR and I just see
23:10 like a lot of payroll and square pegs
23:13 being put into round holes because no
23:15 single person is perfect for a portfolio
23:18 of 20 companies so our model is we’ve
23:21 got we call them a network of coaches
23:22 right so we’ve got a company that’s
23:25 based in Philadelphia where we’ve got a
23:26 new CEO who’s doing a great job
23:29 organizing the team and the founder who
24:32 left was like the lead product person he
24:35 would help the engineers decide okay we
24:36 need to build these things over the road
24:39 map of the next 12 months and so when he
24:42 left which was an understood planned
24:44 event um there was a bit of a gap in the
24:47 product world so we put somebody in that
24:49 role who’s new to the role so we engage
24:52 our network of coaches and we have you
24:55 know one of I think one of the best
24:56 product people in the world helping that
24:58 guy guy to learn how to do his job cool
24:02 and we’re paying him to do that but he
24:04 doesn’t have to be on my payroll forever
24:07 because he’s the right person at that
24:09 time for that company because the next
24:12 company we buy might need it need a
24:13 different type of product person or not
24:16 need a product person at all and so
24:18 we’ve got the network of people that we
24:20 can call on to come help us with any
24:22 project at any time I just chose not to
24:25 put them on the payroll because I don’t
24:26 think that makes sense and so that sort
24:28 of guided line and but it might make
24:30 sense for you to have an HR person on
25:32 the payroll or a legal person on the
25:33 payroll every business is a little bit
25:35 different this is just kind of how we’ve
25:37 decided to model it out no it’s very
25:39 cool and it’s always great to have like
25:41 a conversation piece where we’re all
25:42 kind of you know exchanging notes in a
25:44 sense and then the listeners get to go
25:46 wow that’s pretty cool right well this
25:48 is the type of thing if you’ve got
25:49 listeners who are early in their Journey
25:51 you know you said you’ve got a lot of
25:53 people that want to be entrepreneurs
25:55 through acquisition like these are
25:57 things you don’t have to think about
25:58 with your first acquisition but if you
25:60 want to do multiples it’s good to think
25:02 about early and just get different
25:03 perspectives if you’re doing a first
25:05 deal this is almost don’t don’t
25:07 overthink it right people get analysis
25:09 paralysis about meaningless things that
25:11 really don’t matter till later no but we
25:13 so we just had our big conference it was
25:14 awesome um and U most of the guys though
25:17 I talked to and I would love to say it
25:19 was guys and girls there just wasn’t
25:20 enough females right it would have been
25:22 great we’re going to get there we’re
25:23 going to build that yeah a lot of the
25:25 people that I talked to they weren’t
25:27 they may never even bought a company but
25:29 they’re already thinking about their
26:30 third or fourth right and but because
26:33 it’s the dream okay I mean we’ve all got
26:35 to have a dream to drive us to make that
26:37 decision to sign the paperwork to buy
26:38 your first one right yeah but there is
26:40 that power of one right just kill it in
26:43 that first one do a great job and then
26:45 that second one will follow that’s the
26:47 beauty of the business but I think when
26:49 we’re talking about you and what you do
26:52 um you know it is about scale it is
26:54 about growing and it is taking your
26:56 portfolio and growing a very you know or
26:58 I take it you’re you’re wanting to go
26:01 very big or you think yeah that’s your
26:04 intention I love the model too but
26:06 there’s a phrase that I know from the
26:07 commercial real estate side which
26:08 applies to this too which is those that
26:10 are rich sell those that are wealthy
26:12 hold right and there really there’s a
26:14 difference right between rich people and
26:16 wealthy people yes you know if you can
26:18 build something sustainable where you
26:19 get to hold it you know you’re good to
26:21 go so yeah so I I one of the reasons why
26:25 this holding company model um resonates
26:27 with me is I was was actually talking to
26:29 a private Equity person who had a career
27:32 in private equity and he left to work
27:34 for a very large very wealthy family to
27:38 run their family office and to do
27:39 Acquisitions for them so he essentially
27:41 building a private Equity Firm inside
27:44 this family office and I was talking
27:46 through that career decision and you
27:48 know he’s a friend of mine I’m like why
27:49 this versus that and he said what I hate
27:51 about private Equity is you spend all
27:54 this time trying to find great companies
27:57 and then you try to help make those
27:58 companies even better which is hard work
27:00 and then you’ve got a company that you
27:02 own that is great and you have to sell
27:05 it you know you don’t sell your Bad
27:07 Assets you have to sell your best assets
27:09 to pay off the fund and then you just
27:11 start all over again raising more money
27:13 finding great companies making them
27:15 better when really a normal business
27:17 person if you’ve got a great asset you
27:20 hold it you don’t sell it and so that
27:22 got me thinking about um you know what’s
27:24 the what’s a better way to do this and
27:27 what you know because you know when I
27:29 was starting big band I got to start
28:31 with a blank sheet of paper and just say
28:32 okay let me dream for a minute and if
28:35 everything lines up what do I want it to
28:36 look like and one of the things was like
28:38 I don’t want to have to sell a great
28:39 business just based on some arbitrary
28:42 timetable so really like that that
28:44 phrase Ferris yeah and especially you
28:46 know if you’re buying a business at a
28:48 four to 5x multiple I mean you’re
28:50 getting a 20 25% return on your money
28:52 which is extremely healthy you still get
28:54 to keep the business right so probably a
28:56 good segue so maybe let’s talk a little
28:57 bit you know sass world right what
28:59 multiples are you guys seeing what are
28:01 you you know looking at I mean we kind
28:03 of hear up and down the Spectrum and so
28:05 I’m more Curious to you know someone
28:07 that’s in the trenches right what what
28:09 are you seeing and what kind of
28:10 multiples are you guys buying at uh it’s
28:13 all over the place and that’s like the
28:14 blessing and curse of software is you
28:16 know I know you guys have a lot of
28:18 experience in real estate where you can
28:20 pretty scientifically say I think I
28:22 don’t know anything about real estate so
28:23 tell me it’s very as vanilla in a box as
28:25 you can be period the m&a side we can
28:28 get super creative on the capital stack
28:30 on valuations on structuring I mean
29:31 everything it’s it’s all for negotiation
29:33 and my space is the m&a side so but you
29:35 know when you’re dealing with the a m
29:37 manufacturing company that has a large
29:38 amount of capex you know you’re not
29:40 going to deal in that high multiple that
29:42 you’re going to deal with or higher
29:43 multiples you might deal with in
29:44 software right right well my point was
29:47 like if you’re if you’re dealing with
29:48 okay it’s a gas station on a specific
29:50 corner of Houston I don’t know what
29:52 those trade for but I bet you guys can
29:54 say with pretty certainty like that’s
29:56 going to be between X and Y value
29:59 where it is the type of business it’s
29:01 there so software is the opposite um and
29:05 just to give you like I know not our
29:07 deals but I know of deals that traded as
29:09 low as one times revenue and as high as
29:13 15 times revenue and there’s everything
29:15 in between because um there’s so many
29:18 variables right how fast are you growing
29:21 are you profitable um how big is your
29:23 market right so like that gas station in
29:25 Houston can only serve so many people I
29:28 don’t know how the radiuses but like if
29:30 you’ve got a great software company that
30:32 serves a very large Market it can feel
30:35 like an infinite um amount of
30:38 opportunity and so um they they’re you
30:41 know like so reasonably two to five
30:44 times revenue is a more reasonable range
30:47 for like a normal like middle of the
30:49 bell curve business but um you know and
30:51 and we like buying businesses direct
30:53 from Founders where they know they want
30:55 to sell they’ built a profitable healthy
30:57 company that is hopefully growing but it
30:59 doesn’t have to be like rocket ship
30:01 growth because what we’re great at is
30:03 taking a company like that helping it
30:05 grow a little bit faster while doing so
30:07 in a profitable way and so we don’t need
30:10 a business to be growing at 100% because
30:13 we know generally we can bend that curve
30:15 upward once we own it do you like to
30:17 keep the guys do you like to keep the
30:19 owners so someone listening says hey
30:22 I’ve got a great company I’m going to
30:24 reach out to this guy you know I might
30:25 fit into that box are you sitting there
30:27 saying hey you’re gone we’re replacing
30:29 you that’s the idea or make Kevin answer
31:32 this very carefully because in case that
31:34 no no it’s a loaded question I know it
31:36 is it’s so it is up to the guys and the
31:40 girls whether they want to stay so I’ll
31:43 give you so three examples the first
31:45 business we bought was a husband and
31:46 wife team the wife was a CEO husband’s a
31:49 CTO Chief technology officer the the
31:53 wife wanted to retire and go do
31:54 something else the husband wanted to
31:56 stay we made that happen so
31:58 you know uh second business we bought
31:01 the product guy that I referenced
31:03 earlier his name is Rick he wanted to
31:05 retire and move on cool we knew that
31:07 from the beginning we brought in a new
31:08 CEO who’s come in and crushing it we can
31:10 make that work um we have another deal
31:13 that we’re talking with the the founder
31:14 right now who wants to stay on and be
31:16 the CEO that’s fine so really it’s about
31:19 like um what works for the business
31:21 what’s what is the business need what is
31:24 the founder or owner need what’s
31:25 important to them and then what makes
31:27 sense for for us and so it takes a
31:30 special type of founder CEO who will
32:32 sell the business in its entirety and
32:34 because we want to Own 100% our holding
32:37 company model uh works best when We Own
32:40 100% because that way we can move cash
32:41 from one business to another and push
32:44 cash up back up to the holding company
32:46 level to make more
32:47 Acquisitions um and if if the uh cap
32:51 tables of every business aren’t
32:53 identical that triggers tax and
32:54 complexity which we want to avoid um so
32:58 a CEO that wants to sell the business
32:00 entirely um we need to make sure they’re
32:03 going to continue to be motivated after
32:04 they’ve got a pile of money to continue
32:06 to grow with us and if you know we’re
32:09 convinced that that person is on board
32:11 with that plan and they’re going to be
32:12 motivated then I’d love to have the
32:14 people stay on because who better to run
32:17 a business than the person who’s been
32:18 running it for five or six years in most
32:21 cases they’ve forgotten more about the
32:23 business than we can know um unless
32:25 they’re just like too tired or they’ve
32:27 hit a ceiling and they’re just not the
32:28 right person anymore because the
32:30 business is outgrown them and generally
33:32 people know that that if the business is
33:34 outgrown them that might be one of the
33:35 reasons why they’re selling might just
33:37 want to retire Etc so long with an
33:39 answer to your question Casey but like
33:41 we can work with any any type of founder
33:44 whether they want to stay or they want
33:45 to go yeah but but it’s tough if you’re
33:47 not getting to roll the equity right so
33:49 it does take a very special founder
33:50 because you really you know getting
33:52 people to roll 20% and they get to hey
33:54 let’s go triple the company in the next
33:56 five years together that’s motivation
33:58 right and we can get we can get creative
33:60 with incentives even if we own it we can
33:02 create synthetic Equity that gives them
33:04 that motivation in certain cases we’ve
33:07 had people roll Equity not in their own
33:09 company but into the holding company
33:12 itself so into big band okay so now
33:14 they’re they’re they’re still an owner
33:16 of their business but they will be an
33:18 owner of everything we buy forever so
33:20 that’s actually pretty compelling
33:22 opportunity for a lot of folks and you
33:24 guys know this from doing deals yourself
33:25 like every Situation’s a little
33:27 different buiness businesses are run by
33:29 people we are all different and so part
34:32 of our job is just to figure out like
34:34 what’s important to them what’s
34:35 important to us and are we close enough
34:36 to find a deal then let’s do that and if
34:38 we’re not okay we part ways and you know
34:41 we’re not a fit so when you find the CEO
34:43 right so let’s say the the the seller
34:46 he’s out and you bring in the CEO are
34:49 you bringing in the CEO with with Equity
34:51 or you bringing them in mostly for comp
34:53 I mean how do you what is your mindset
34:55 when you bring those guys in so we we’ll
34:57 pay like really healthy Market rates for
34:00 the the size of the business and the
34:01 CEO’s background so that is typically a
34:03 blend of um you know nice salary
34:06 short-term and long-term incentive plan
34:08 based on goals for the business and then
34:10 some equity in the business but again
34:12 it’s more of a like profit sharing or
34:14 profits interest or synthetic Equity if
34:16 you look at the the proper cap table of
34:19 the business it’s it’s big band but
34:22 they’re motivate you know I like to say
34:24 Equity doesn’t buy boats like what
34:26 people actually want is money right and
34:28 so we create all sorts of structures to
34:30 where you hit this big healthy Target in
35:32 five years and you get a big pile of
35:34 money and that you don’t have to be on
35:37 the cap table for us to figure that out
35:39 so we create the right blend of um short
35:41 and long-term incentives that are a fit
35:43 for the business and a fit for that CEO
35:45 awesome really like it so really quick
35:47 so going back to the multiples so you
35:50 you only look at it from a multiple of
35:52 Revenue right what margins are those
35:54 typically bringing in I mean do you ever
35:55 look at it from a different lens or is
35:56 it just straight up
35:58 yeah you know because it makes it hard
35:01 to compare the company that’s run
35:02 efficiently versus the company that’s
35:03 not right yeah totally agree um and so
35:06 we also look at a multiple of ebit do
35:08 just to look at kind of like um what’s
35:11 our return model um and at the end of
35:14 the day like we’re we’re very scientific
35:17 in our financial projections and models
35:19 of like okay in five years what do we
35:21 think we can do for this business and
35:22 then what is our irr but at the end of
35:25 the day we got to come up with a number
35:27 and hope that it’s close to what is a
35:29 number that the seller is willing to
36:30 sell for and like how we both got there
36:33 doesn’t really matter that much um so we
36:36 like profitable businesses because you
36:38 know called me oldfashioned but I
36:40 believe businesses are there to make
36:42 money and you would agree unfortunately
36:44 our our friends in the software World
36:46 fairis kind of lost our way for the last
36:48 10 or so years when money was free and
36:51 Venture Capital has sort of like I would
36:54 say polluted the mindset of the for a
36:56 little bit I think the world is coming
36:58 back to my way of thinking where
36:59 businesses are made to make money um and
36:02 so but if the businesses like break even
36:04 or like very thin margins I just want to
36:07 believe that we can grow those margins
36:09 over time because the point is to take
36:12 some of that cash flow put it back up to
36:14 the holding company to fuel more
36:15 Acquisitions but we have the flexibility
36:17 if it’s the right thing to run the
36:19 company Break Even because it’s growing
36:20 fast and needs more resources we have
36:22 the flexibility to do that now are you
36:24 working through Brokers are you are you
36:27 guys have an organic search that you
36:29 that you do or is it kind of a mix both
37:31 so we find it we we pay attention to the
37:34 the best brokers in the space and
37:36 there’s some that specialize in software
37:38 that that’s all they do there’s other
37:40 Brokers and bankers that are more
37:41 generalists and so we try to stay close
37:44 with anybody who’s finding good deals
37:46 and marketing good deals uh it’s sort of
37:49 our preference to deal directly with
37:51 Founders and so we we do that like we’ll
37:54 organically try to find people or they
37:56 will find us because between me and my
37:58 partners we’ve been in this game for you
37:00 know a cumulative like 50 60 years of
37:03 like buying businesses and running
37:05 software companies um and we also have
37:08 like lots of friends out there in the
37:09 world who will refer us
37:12 businesses um so we get we find deals
37:14 from all sorts of different Avenues but
37:16 we’re happy to work with a broker if
37:18 they’ve got a good deal and they’re
37:19 they’re easy to work with which they’re
37:21 not they’re not all easy to work with
37:23 question on that same vein do you run
37:26 into issues where you find a business
37:27 you really like
37:28 but it is VC backed and you know
38:31 essentially they did a round that was
38:33 probably way too expensive and you know
38:36 the business isn’t worth it I me
38:37 especially right now what’s going on in
38:38 the market right it’s I I guess you
38:40 probably hit a lot of that where you
38:42 know they did $10 million round arguing
38:44 it’s worth 10 million and really it’s
38:45 probably worth five but their Equity is
38:47 never going to sell because you know
38:48 they don’t want to write down the
38:50 loss uh yeah so we see those deals a lot
38:53 we we try not to focus on VC deals
38:55 because they’re either burning cash
38:57 which I don’t like or the valuation just
38:59 way out of line um what has happened in
38:02 the last like 12 months is that a lot of
38:05 VCS have realized okay this business is
38:07 never going to be a billion dollar
38:09 company let’s just sell it to get it off
38:11 the books and swallow the write down and
38:14 so um we dealt with a business recently
38:17 where the CEO was um behind he they had
38:20 raised like a I think like $15 million
38:24 and like the business was credibly worth
38:26 like five based on where they were and
38:28 their you know revenue and you know
38:30 profit and it was being run profitably
39:32 so he had just had a Frank conversation
39:34 with his board members to say like we’re
39:37 never going to get our money back but if
39:39 we sell it the business can continue and
39:41 our team can keep employed and we can
39:43 keep serving our customers and so if
39:46 they’ve had that hard conversation in
39:47 the boardroom and they’re willing to
39:49 accept a reasonable valuation we can
39:51 talk if they haven’t gotten there then
39:53 it’s going to be a very short
39:55 conversation because like we’re just you
39:57 know just because they raised a whole
39:58 bunch of money doesn’t mean that that’s
39:59 what the business is worth yeah it so so
39:01 your sweet spot is really you know
39:04 founder backed and mostly founder owned
39:06 businesses that have kind of grown right
39:08 sounds like two million revenue is kind
39:10 of that lower threshold of what you’re
39:11 looking for probably five to 10
39:13 employees is probably a sweet spot as
39:15 well is that right just kind of that
39:16 those are the types of companies you’re
39:17 looking for yeah I mean employee count
39:20 is not a super important metric because
39:22 I mean you’d be surprised I just meant
39:24 what what you’ve been buying like just
39:25 from what you’ve seen ends up being
39:26 probably somewhere around there yeah say
39:28 five to 20 employees or even bigger you
40:30 know depending another interesting thing
40:32 about the software world is like you
40:34 could tell me you got 20 employees and
40:36 if they’re in Houston that costs one
40:38 thing if they’re in the Philippines that
40:39 costs a very different thing right so
40:41 that’s why employee count is sort of a
40:43 we OB it’s important like we got to know
40:45 what we’re taking over but that’s not a
40:47 screen in terms of if we’re interested
40:49 in a business or not so 2 million to 10
40:52 is sort of our our ideal range it’s not
40:55 a hard floor if something’s at a million
40:57 million and a half but growing fast like
40:59 we’d love to talk to those folks and if
40:01 it’s bigger than 10 million like we can
40:03 we can find the money to go do that deal
40:05 but it we you know kind of that’s the
40:07 the guide the guide
40:08 post well I have an Amazon store for you
40:11 to buy no I’m just kidding it’s been the
40:13 new trend with all these you those kind
40:15 of stores that people are everybody
40:16 knows somebody with the software or Tech
40:19 business cool awesome well well I will
40:22 tell you Kevin this has uh been great to
40:24 interview you and talk with you about it
40:26 and for our listeners you know if you
40:27 have a software company and you’re
40:29 thinking about your exit man it may be
41:31 worth getting a hold of Kevin so Kevin
41:33 what is the best way that our listeners
41:34 can get a hold of you yeah big band
41:36 software.com there’s a form on there
41:38 where you just say here’s here’s who I
41:40 am here’s my business we’re interested
41:41 in talking to business owners that are
41:44 interested in selling or just want to
41:45 understand this process a little bit
41:47 more like we’re very passive and try to
41:49 just be helpful because when it comes to
41:51 selling a business there’s a whole lot
41:52 of like mystery around it you know you
41:55 all do this all the time but you know if
41:57 a found has just been heads down growing
41:59 their business for 5 to 10 years often
41:00 they just don’t know what they don’t
41:02 know and I’m happy to be helpful to
41:04 those folks whether we’re a buyer or not
41:06 just because I love entrepreneurs and I
41:07 want Founders and entrepreneurs to win
41:09 and be successful so big band
41:12 software.com we’re also interested in
41:13 talking to operators most of the time
41:16 the founder is ready to move on and do
41:18 something else so we need to put a CEO
41:20 in place and you know I find a lot of
41:22 folks who think they want to run a
41:24 business but they find it’s hard to find
41:26 one and finance it
41:29 there’s risks doing that too super risky
42:31 right and and it’s hard and so what they
42:33 might want is like be a CEO and get
42:36 compensated really well and so we can
42:39 provide that for folks and so we’re
42:40 interested in talking to those uh you
42:42 know aspiring operators as well and you
42:45 know my platform of choice is Twitter so
42:47 find me it’s Kevin unor McCardle and
42:50 McCardle only has one C but that’s where
42:52 you can find me on social media
42:54 fantastic so let’s jump into our rocket
42:56 round this is where we’re going to ask
42:58 some questions get to know you a little
42:59 bit better Kevin so first one is so what
42:01 do you like to do in your free
42:03 time oh anything active and outside so
42:06 when we’re done here I’m going mountain
42:08 biking I love paddle boarding I’m in
42:10 Minnesota so there’s water everywhere uh
42:12 and cross country skiing when it gets
42:14 cold so I just like to be active and do
42:16 so outside beautiful right here is doing
42:19 reneer in two weeks yeah nice my sonm
42:22 year 15 years ago I was much younger and
42:25 I’m much older and but it it it’s a
42:28 tough one but I love being outdoors too
42:30 Houston’s not the best place for that
43:32 we’re gonna do a podcast of while you’re
43:34 at the summit right there we go that’s
43:35 it that’s it awesome so so next question
43:38 you know what’s been your most memorable
43:39 business moment of the business Journey
43:41 right for some people it’s a closing a
43:43 purchase seeing money in the bank you
43:45 know what’s it been for you uh you know
43:48 honest I think it’s probably the day
43:50 that we launched big band you know
43:52 because I told you had a previous
43:53 business that you know had to part ways
43:56 with the other owners and I I literally
43:58 got a blank sheet of paper and I said
43:00 this is what I want it to look like this
43:02 is who I want to work with these are the
43:05 people that I want to invest in it and
43:07 this is the model that I believe is the
43:09 right thing and that all came true and
43:13 it was just like a really awesome and
43:15 humbling experience that the team wanted
43:17 to work with me the investors believed
43:19 in it they put large sums of money
43:21 behind it and I you know created this
43:24 thing that was a dream and so December
43:26 1st 202 22 we signed all the paperwork
43:29 and big band was launched and that’s
44:31 probably my one of my best days in
44:33 business so far man that’s fantastic so
44:36 uh last question what what’s your
44:38 favorite tool or
44:40 resource um that’s a good question I
44:42 don’t know if this this this may be kind
44:44 of obscure answer to that but um I’m a
44:47 huge believer in peer mentor groups so
44:50 I’m a member of YPO which you guys may
44:52 have heard of EO is a great group for
44:56 entrepreneurs um and I’ve gotten so much
44:58 value out of having a a small group of
44:01 people that know everything about me and
44:03 my business and we’re all there to help
44:05 each other once a month or at the drop
44:08 of a hat if somebody texts and needs a
44:09 problem so that is my best resource for
44:13 everything in both life and business and
44:15 I strongly encourage people if you don’t
44:18 have that group of PE it’s not your
44:20 friends it’s not your drinking buddies
44:21 we are friends but it’s more than that
44:23 we we solve real problems together
44:26 minimum once a month and is has been
44:28 such a huge resource and blessing in my
45:30 life totally agree I got another quote
45:33 for you it’s not about who you know or
45:35 what you know it’s about who knows you
45:36 right and really having an ecosystem to
45:38 go get bounced ideas off of to go get
45:40 advice from you we were finalist for
45:42 entrepreneur of the year and one of the
45:44 most impressive things is the other
45:46 people there it’s like man these people
45:47 are like you know so much more
45:49 impressive than us and even things like
45:51 you know I remember just one guy was
45:52 saying well if you ever need to figure
45:53 out how to go after like a big publicly
45:55 traded company whenever they you know
45:57 file for Bank bankruptcy come talk to me
45:58 right like these like really Niche
45:60 things because he had I think he PG e
45:03 for whenever they had the California
45:04 fire right they f for bankruptcy because
45:07 they caused a huge fire and I think that
45:09 company owed him like $50 million and
45:11 just you know like these kind of Niche
45:12 things that you’re your friends that you
45:14 grew up with in high school they’re
45:15 probably not going to have that problem
45:16 so they’re not be able to guide you
45:17 versus being around people that can
45:19 guide you or they know they’re one
45:20 removed from the person that can help
45:22 really steare you kind of where that’s
45:24 totally that’s totally right and like
45:25 your your network is your net worth but
45:27 that that doesn’t mean so if your
45:28 listener is early in their career and
46:30 not currently connected to those types
46:33 of folks there’s still value in
46:36 connecting with the people that are at
46:37 your stage or a little above and yeah
46:39 who knows you well um and that that
46:43 grows in in spiderwebs over time and so
46:45 you know I highly encourage folks to get
46:47 involved in a group like that or create
46:49 one of your own that can help each other
46:51 perfect well Kevin thank you very much
46:53 for being on the show you already shared
46:54 your content information we’ll have that
46:56 in the show notes appreciate taking the
46:57 time thanks for having me guys a lot of
46:59 fun great stuff thank you for listening
46:02 to the m&a Launchpad podcast if you’ve
46:04 enjoyed today’s podcast and would like
46:06 to support us please leave us a rating
46:07 and a review after you listen I’m Casey
46:09 mchu and I look forward to talking with
46:11 you next week
